But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:20-21.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali calls 1.6 billion Muslims to task. A simple google search would have shown her the outrages over taslima nasreen, the saudi verdicts and the silly teddy bear. But, I am sure NYT knows better than doing any such fact-checking when screeds are available.
Also, heh.
:) Hey, next time, make sure to insert quotes from the Law of Manu: 371. If a wife, proud of the greatness of her relatives or her own excellence, violates the duty which she owes to her lord, the king shall cause her to be devoured by dogs in a place frequented by many. And Bhagvad Gita, courtesy of "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada" [sic]: Chapter 1, Text 40: "The varnasrama religion's principles were so designed that the good population would prevail in society for the general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. As children are very prone to be misled, women are similarly very prone to degradation. Therefore, both children and women require protection by the elder members of the family. By being engaged in various religious practices, women will not be misled into adultery. According to Canakya Pandita, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy....On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood the human race at the risk of war and pestilence." Chapter 16, Text 7: "The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world. Actually, a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by the father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grown-up sons in her old age. This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-samhita. But modern education has artificially devised a puffed-up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society. Nor is the moral condition of women very good now."
This is the actual translation of Bhagvad Gita chapter 1, text 40: When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krishna, the women of the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrishni, comes unwanted progeny. What Desi Italiana has pasted above is the commentary by Prabhupada as he understood it.
"What Desi Italiana has pasted above is the commentary by Prabhupada as he understood it." Yes, you are right about that. I cited from the "Purport" sections. Thanks for pointing that out. My view, however, is that his commentary is as good as the verses itself, because the purports are published in the "Bhagvad Gita As It Is" and this translation/version is widely circulated by ISKON throughout the US and elsewhere. And most people here in the US (esp. the converts) are most familiar with the ISKON book rather than, say, translations in other languages that are not accessible (nay, even unknown) to others.
My view, however, is that his commentary is as good as the verses itself, because the purports are published in the “Bhagvad Gita As It Is”. Sorry, DI, but I do not agree with that. The Bhagwad-Gita, as all other scriptures, suffers through translation, but even more so by commentaries which are tainted by the views of the commentator. Most of the time, the commentator uses the opportunity to forward his own agenda and Prabhupada is not innocent in this regard. Since he was the founder of ISKCON, his version would naturally be pushed by them. Do not make the mistake of putting him on the same pedestal as the original writer of the scripture.
"Most of the time, the commentator uses the opportunity to forward his own agenda and Prabhupada is not innocent in this regard. Since he was the founder of ISKCON, his version would naturally be pushed by them." Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. Which is why I said that his purports were as equally valid as the verses themselves to me, especially when there are millions of people reading the Bhagvad Gita who have very little training in Sanskrit. And it also needs to be pointed out that there are various translations of the Bhagvad Gita. BTW, what for you is so fundamentally different in meaning from the verse which you quoted vs. the purport that I quoted? "Do not make the mistake of putting him on the same pedestal as the original writer of the scripture." Who was the "original writer" of the scripture, in your opinion? And do you also feel that the quoted verse is an accurate rendering the verse in Sankrit?
Who was the “original writer” of the scripture, in your opinion? I subscribe to the view that there was not one single writer, rather that it was polished/enhanced through various generations of teachers/masters, trying to point out the moral/social goals they felt the masses should aspire to. That of course would be tainted by prevalent social/moral values of their time. And do you also feel that the quoted verse is an accurate rendering the verse in Sankrit? No, I do not. But I am no Sanskrit scholar. BTW, what for you is so fundamentally different in meaning from the verse which you quoted vs. the purport that I quoted? The original just states what it feels is a fact. I could respect that as being a valid moral stance of that era. While the purport uses it as a tool for preaching morality in this time and age.
Hello Ashok, "The original just states what it feels is a fact. I could respect that as being a valid moral stance of that era. While the purport uses it as a tool for preaching morality in this time and age." I agree with this. Part of the reason (which I didn't state) I put up those quotes was to underline that texts like the Gita are also like the Bible and Koran-- that those things were written in a historical context but are pushed as facts that should be adhered to in this day and age. Islam is by no means the only religion where this occurs. IMO, I see this as a common problem in all religions. And yet people keep harping on, and give space to, those who "speak out against Islam," as if no other religion and religious communities have these problems. I would like to see more space devoted to fundamentalist issues not from the angle that Ali approaches (btw, I don't really like her angle), or Indian writers who continuously refer to Babri Masjid (for secularists, Babri is the symbolic origin of everything that has gone awry regarding communalism) to discuss Hindu fundamentalism, as well as religiously sanctified violence and dogmas today.