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	<title>Comments on: The Polyglot Manifesto II</title>
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	<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html</link>
	<description>what is the vertiginous chapati saying to me?</description>
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		<title>By: The Eye of the Beholder &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A little inspiration may go a long way.</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-159117</link>
		<dc:creator>The Eye of the Beholder &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A little inspiration may go a long way.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-159117</guid>
		<description>[...] that the site is essentially useless.  And here I go back Ahmed’s Manifesto, Part 1 &amp; Part 2, as a source for inspiration on what I can do.  It is not up to me to worry, per se, about all the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that the site is essentially useless.  And here I go back Ahmed’s Manifesto, Part 1 &amp; Part 2, as a source for inspiration on what I can do.  It is not up to me to worry, per se, about all the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Learning to Speak in Code &#171; Novel History</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-157897</link>
		<dc:creator>Learning to Speak in Code &#171; Novel History</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-157897</guid>
		<description>[...] (some of) the language of the programmer over the course of this year so that I can begin to &#8220;re-imagine&#8220;, as Ahmed has exhorted, the old in new ways. I’m excited, if duly daunted, by the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (some of) the language of the programmer over the course of this year so that I can begin to &#8220;re-imagine&#8220;, as Ahmed has exhorted, the old in new ways. I’m excited, if duly daunted, by the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Readings in Design for Digital Humanities &#124; ClioWeb</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5634</link>
		<dc:creator>Readings in Design for Digital Humanities &#124; ClioWeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5634</guid>
		<description>[...] Chapati Mystery, especially Manan&#8217;s excellent Polyglot Manifesto I and II. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chapati Mystery, especially Manan&#8217;s excellent Polyglot Manifesto I and II. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Digital History Hacks &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digital History Year in Review</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5633</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital History Hacks &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digital History Year in Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 19:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5633</guid>
		<description>[...] Manan Ahmed penned a Polyglot Manifesto in two parts. I switched from Perl to Python. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Manan Ahmed penned a Polyglot Manifesto in two parts. I switched from Perl to Python. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ab</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5632</link>
		<dc:creator>ab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jun 2006 16:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5632</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Just look at the interest and engagement about content at Wikipedia, the thousands of hits a day at the History News Network, and the thousands of hits at day at CHNM projects. The ‚Äúhistory‚Äù tag is one of the more popular tags on del.icio.us.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



That is popular history.  Innundate those sites with the theses of scholarly works (if you can figure out what the hell said theses are), and see how many non-specialists you can get to care about how vic turner&#039;s theories are being applied to pre-aurangzeb mughal india.



&lt;blockquote&gt;And I‚Äôd say that the ‚Äúwho gives a damn‚Äù divide did shrink greatly when scholarly works (and publications more generally) were published in more languages and made more accessible to the public. &lt;/blockquote&gt;



you think scholarly work is published in language accessible to the public? Thats rich.  I can understand Seneca better than I can understand HRM Spivak.  And I dont speak Latin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Just look at the interest and engagement about content at Wikipedia, the thousands of hits a day at the History News Network, and the thousands of hits at day at CHNM projects. The ‚Äúhistory‚Äù tag is one of the more popular tags on del.icio.us.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is popular history.  Innundate those sites with the theses of scholarly works (if you can figure out what the hell said theses are), and see how many non-specialists you can get to care about how vic turner&#8217;s theories are being applied to pre-aurangzeb mughal india.</p>
<blockquote><p>And I‚Äôd say that the ‚Äúwho gives a damn‚Äù divide did shrink greatly when scholarly works (and publications more generally) were published in more languages and made more accessible to the public. </p></blockquote>
<p>you think scholarly work is published in language accessible to the public? Thats rich.  I can understand Seneca better than I can understand HRM Spivak.  And I dont speak Latin.</p>
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		<title>By: Pasha</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5629</link>
		<dc:creator>Pasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 04:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5629</guid>
		<description>this is why we need more people like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.columbia.edu/~asp49/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sean Pue&lt;/a&gt;. allow me to get Urdu-ghazal-geeky and say that, given the tricky nature of the intertextuality of ghazals, it would be a huge boon to future generations of Urdu poetry lovers to have as many ghazals as possible up on the web with tags to indicate   their mazmuns.



most English poems are another kettle of macchliyaan, as each poem as a whole tends to express a particular theme. given that (except in the case of musalsal ghazals), every verse of the ghazal is a semantic unit unto itself, and relates thematically -- or, rather, mazmuun-wise -- to other shi`rs that might be in other ghazals, in other diwans, by other poets, performing mazmun-based criticism can be an exhausting task. believe me, i&#039;ve tried.



the only way to do it without running your finger through kulliyat upon kulliyat is to a) have a million verses memorized, as some people still do, or b) have a whole whack of them indexed on a computer. no doubt as notebooks, blogs, and websites continue to usurp the place of the human memory (or maybe i&#039;m just speaking for myself...) plan a will be less and less feasible.



basically, we need one of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ghalib/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these&lt;/a&gt; for every ghazal-poet out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is why we need more people like <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/~asp49/" rel="nofollow">Sean Pue</a>. allow me to get Urdu-ghazal-geeky and say that, given the tricky nature of the intertextuality of ghazals, it would be a huge boon to future generations of Urdu poetry lovers to have as many ghazals as possible up on the web with tags to indicate   their mazmuns.</p>
<p>most English poems are another kettle of macchliyaan, as each poem as a whole tends to express a particular theme. given that (except in the case of musalsal ghazals), every verse of the ghazal is a semantic unit unto itself, and relates thematically &#8212; or, rather, mazmuun-wise &#8212; to other shi`rs that might be in other ghazals, in other diwans, by other poets, performing mazmun-based criticism can be an exhausting task. believe me, i&#8217;ve tried.</p>
<p>the only way to do it without running your finger through kulliyat upon kulliyat is to a) have a million verses memorized, as some people still do, or b) have a whole whack of them indexed on a computer. no doubt as notebooks, blogs, and websites continue to usurp the place of the human memory (or maybe i&#8217;m just speaking for myself&#8230;) plan a will be less and less feasible.</p>
<p>basically, we need one of <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ghalib/" rel="nofollow">these</a> for every ghazal-poet out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Boggs</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5627</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Boggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 18:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5627</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;some monograph on shahjahanabad or the kakatiyas can be digitialized, hyperlinked, wikied, etc, etc, but its not going to make anyone any more interrested in the subject.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



So, where&#039;s your proof of this? How do we know that it wouldn&#039;t make anyone any more interested in it?



It&#039;s quite unsound to start with the assumption that no one would be more interested. I may be a hopeless optimist, but I believe that the &quot;smoke and mirrors techno act&quot; is more than just an act, and does in fact help bridge you &quot;who gives a damn&quot; divide. 



I place far more blame on ivory tower academics, who stick their noses up at the idea of making their work freely available on the web and engaging with the public through digital methods. Just look at the interest and engagement about content at Wikipedia, the thousands of hits a day at the History News Network, and the thousands of hits at day at CHNM projects. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://del.icio.us/tag/history&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;history&quot;&lt;/a&gt; tag is one of the more popular tags on del.icio.us.



And I&#039;d say that the &quot;who gives a damn&quot; divide did shrink greatly when scholarly works (and publications more generally) were published in more languages and made more accessible to the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>some monograph on shahjahanabad or the kakatiyas can be digitialized, hyperlinked, wikied, etc, etc, but its not going to make anyone any more interrested in the subject.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, where&#8217;s your proof of this? How do we know that it wouldn&#8217;t make anyone any more interested in it?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite unsound to start with the assumption that no one would be more interested. I may be a hopeless optimist, but I believe that the &#8220;smoke and mirrors techno act&#8221; is more than just an act, and does in fact help bridge you &#8220;who gives a damn&#8221; divide. </p>
<p>I place far more blame on ivory tower academics, who stick their noses up at the idea of making their work freely available on the web and engaging with the public through digital methods. Just look at the interest and engagement about content at Wikipedia, the thousands of hits a day at the History News Network, and the thousands of hits at day at CHNM projects. The <a href="http://del.icio.us/tag/history" rel="nofollow">&#8220;history&#8221;</a> tag is one of the more popular tags on del.icio.us.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d say that the &#8220;who gives a damn&#8221; divide did shrink greatly when scholarly works (and publications more generally) were published in more languages and made more accessible to the public.</p>
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		<title>By: elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5626</link>
		<dc:creator>elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 05:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5626</guid>
		<description>...you know, i&#039;m also increasingly entranced by the possibilities for multilayered/hyperlinked digital mapping as a similar tool.  i have a vague sort of feeling that people in geography and urban studies departments are a few years ahead of the rest of us in this.  for me, the equivalent of your persian text might well be a map of, say, Istanbul in 1900, or Hatay in 1936, in which one could embed demographic data about the location and distribution of various ethnic/linguistic/religious communities, along with images, links to primary sources, and so forth.  i have seen fragments of similar things (often as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.iksv.org/bienal/bienal9/english/?Page=Artists&amp;Sub=Az&amp;Content=Axel_John_Wieder_Jesko_Fezer&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;art projects&lt;/a&gt; rather than in formal &#039;scholarly&#039; contexts per se) and it whets the appetite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;you know, i&#8217;m also increasingly entranced by the possibilities for multilayered/hyperlinked digital mapping as a similar tool.  i have a vague sort of feeling that people in geography and urban studies departments are a few years ahead of the rest of us in this.  for me, the equivalent of your persian text might well be a map of, say, Istanbul in 1900, or Hatay in 1936, in which one could embed demographic data about the location and distribution of various ethnic/linguistic/religious communities, along with images, links to primary sources, and so forth.  i have seen fragments of similar things (often as <a href="http://www.iksv.org/bienal/bienal9/english/?Page=Artists&amp;Sub=Az&amp;Content=Axel_John_Wieder_Jesko_Fezer" rel="nofollow">art projects</a> rather than in formal &#8216;scholarly&#8217; contexts per se) and it whets the appetite.</p>
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		<title>By: Morcy</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5625</link>
		<dc:creator>Morcy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 06:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5625</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sad I missed the Franke conf to get a boy scout tie, but whatever. I&#039;m very interested in what you&#039;re discussing here, and could easily use the efforts of others in whatever my work is now. 



My issue is with seeing the actual compiling, etc., *as my work*. This could be a disciplinary difference. http://eliotswasteland.tripod.com/, for example, strikes me as a limited alpha version of what you&#039;re getting at, but even so, it&#039;s got this feeling of being merely &quot;reference.&quot; Annotation, compilation, etc., strikes me as so unsexy... as so... historical.



So like I said, maybe it&#039;s a disciplinary difference, in which case I&#039;m trying to wonder how English would react. Or I&#039;m a snob. Or I don&#039;t fully understand. Or some bombination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sad I missed the Franke conf to get a boy scout tie, but whatever. I&#8217;m very interested in what you&#8217;re discussing here, and could easily use the efforts of others in whatever my work is now. </p>
<p>My issue is with seeing the actual compiling, etc., *as my work*. This could be a disciplinary difference. <a href="http://eliotswasteland.tripod.com/" rel="nofollow">http://eliotswasteland.tripod.com/</a>, for example, strikes me as a limited alpha version of what you&#8217;re getting at, but even so, it&#8217;s got this feeling of being merely &#8220;reference.&#8221; Annotation, compilation, etc., strikes me as so unsexy&#8230; as so&#8230; historical.</p>
<p>So like I said, maybe it&#8217;s a disciplinary difference, in which case I&#8217;m trying to wonder how English would react. Or I&#8217;m a snob. Or I don&#8217;t fully understand. Or some bombination.</p>
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		<title>By: ab</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5624</link>
		<dc:creator>ab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5624</guid>
		<description>no matter how technoleet history or the humanities become, it will never  bridge the essential divide between the ivory tower and everyone else.  i call this the &quot;who gives a damn&quot; divide.  some monograph on shahjahanabad or the kakatiyas can be digitialized, hyperlinked, wikied, etc, etc, but its not going to make anyone any more interrested in the subject.  the smoke and mirrors techno act will not take away from the essential problem, i am afraid.      hell, the &quot;who gives a damn&quot; divide was supposed to be solved when scholars stopped publishing in latin and greek and started publishing in the dialect also...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no matter how technoleet history or the humanities become, it will never  bridge the essential divide between the ivory tower and everyone else.  i call this the &#8220;who gives a damn&#8221; divide.  some monograph on shahjahanabad or the kakatiyas can be digitialized, hyperlinked, wikied, etc, etc, but its not going to make anyone any more interrested in the subject.  the smoke and mirrors techno act will not take away from the essential problem, i am afraid.      hell, the &#8220;who gives a damn&#8221; divide was supposed to be solved when scholars stopped publishing in latin and greek and started publishing in the dialect also&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sepoy</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5623</link>
		<dc:creator>sepoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 20:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5623</guid>
		<description>thanks Rob. Indeed, I am a silent lurker at Bill Turkel&#039;s fine blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Rob. Indeed, I am a silent lurker at Bill Turkel&#8217;s fine blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob MacD</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5622</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob MacD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 17:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5622</guid>
		<description>A terrific pair of posts, Sepoy.



Another beacon of digital inspirado, in addition to the terrific folks at CHNM, is my UWO colleague Bill Turkel and his weblog &lt;a href=&quot;http://digitalhistoryhacks.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Digital History Hacks&lt;/a&gt;. Check it out, if you haven&#039;t already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A terrific pair of posts, Sepoy.</p>
<p>Another beacon of digital inspirado, in addition to the terrific folks at CHNM, is my UWO colleague Bill Turkel and his weblog <a href="http://digitalhistoryhacks.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Digital History Hacks</a>. Check it out, if you haven&#8217;t already.</p>
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		<title>By: PDCS</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii.html/comment-page-1#comment-5621</link>
		<dc:creator>PDCS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 17:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/uncategorized/the_polyglot_manifesto_ii#comment-5621</guid>
		<description>The key aspect here is to recognize the limits of print and reimagine the text digitally. If we all want to take philology seriously, that&#039;s the only way to go. And for that, as Sepoy says, we got to pick up a couple of new languages too. Persian, Sanskrit, Tamil and Kannada won&#039;t be enough to re-imagine the text. 



Anyway, &#039;from pundit to programmer&#039; we should be able to speak with ease to all, including the Public who should be the beneficiaries of all this expertise. No point in turning all this into a private cultivation of the self and attaining tenure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key aspect here is to recognize the limits of print and reimagine the text digitally. If we all want to take philology seriously, that&#8217;s the only way to go. And for that, as Sepoy says, we got to pick up a couple of new languages too. Persian, Sanskrit, Tamil and Kannada won&#8217;t be enough to re-imagine the text. </p>
<p>Anyway, &#8216;from pundit to programmer&#8217; we should be able to speak with ease to all, including the Public who should be the beneficiaries of all this expertise. No point in turning all this into a private cultivation of the self and attaining tenure.</p>
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