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	<title>Comments on: Flyover Country</title>
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	<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html</link>
	<description>what is the vertiginous chapati saying to me?</description>
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		<title>By: rama</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-161070</link>
		<dc:creator>rama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The post and the discussions - very thought-provoking, and especially on a subject I&#039;ve been seized of lately, &quot;What /How  to Write From / About India&quot; (in English), in relation to writing in Indian languages. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post and the discussions &#8211; very thought-provoking, and especially on a subject I&#8217;ve been seized of lately, &#8220;What /How  to Write From / About India&#8221; (in English), in relation to writing in Indian languages. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Go buy this book now</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-160482</link>
		<dc:creator>Go buy this book now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-160482</guid>
		<description>[...] In February, I posted a review of Amitava Kumar&#8217;s novel Home Products. That self-same book, with minor revisions, is now out from Duke University Press under the title Nobody Does the Right Thing. Below is an excerpt from the review; to read the whole thing, click here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In February, I posted a review of Amitava Kumar&#8217;s novel Home Products. That self-same book, with minor revisions, is now out from Duke University Press under the title Nobody Does the Right Thing. Below is an excerpt from the review; to read the whole thing, click here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gaddesawrup</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159727</link>
		<dc:creator>gaddesawrup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 12:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159727</guid>
		<description>From Pankaj Mishra&#039;s article mentioned above &quot;Writing has become yet another technical skill to be acquired from the West in the private pursuit of social and financial glory. &quot; I feel tha this has crept in to much of academic work including the sciences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Pankaj Mishra&#8217;s article mentioned above &#8220;Writing has become yet another technical skill to be acquired from the West in the private pursuit of social and financial glory. &#8221; I feel tha this has crept in to much of academic work including the sciences.</p>
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		<title>By: Qalandar</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159724</link>
		<dc:creator>Qalandar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 20:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159724</guid>
		<description>Lapata: full credit to the CM facebook page, where a number of older pieces from the blog are showing up.  That&#039;s where I came across the outlook piece from &#039;04...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lapata: full credit to the CM facebook page, where a number of older pieces from the blog are showing up.  That&#8217;s where I came across the outlook piece from &#8217;04&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: lapata</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159723</link>
		<dc:creator>lapata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 14:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159723</guid>
		<description>Great links you guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great links you guys.</p>
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		<title>By: Salman</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159720</link>
		<dc:creator>Salman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 03:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159720</guid>
		<description>Little Inkling - Pankaj Mishra 
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?208414</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Little Inkling &#8211; Pankaj Mishra<br />
<a href="http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?208414" rel="nofollow">http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?208414</a></p>
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		<title>By: qalandar</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159718</link>
		<dc:creator>qalandar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 02:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159718</guid>
		<description>No other place for this but this thread:

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?225730</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No other place for this but this thread:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?225730" rel="nofollow">http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?225730</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Stay-at-Home Man</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159330</link>
		<dc:creator>The Stay-at-Home Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159330</guid>
		<description>[...] the annals of authenticity, a debate that I dismissed as a red herring last week, Naiyer Masud would be the quintessentially authentic author. If anyone were looking for an Indian [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the annals of authenticity, a debate that I dismissed as a red herring last week, Naiyer Masud would be the quintessentially authentic author. If anyone were looking for an Indian [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Barwa</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159276</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Barwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159276</guid>
		<description>A colleague emailed me this link, which goes over some of the same ground re Bihar from a &#039;UP-ite&#039; perspective:

&lt;i&gt;RESIDENT UPITES insist that they are pan-Indian: ‘The Hindustani man’. That they have little in common except accidental geography. But they readily admit to one binding feature. As Avinash Pandey Samar, a research scholar at JNU, puts it, “The first characteristic is the huge sense of relief all UPites feel about not being Biharis.” It hurts the UPite’s sense of self to find himself lumped with the Biharis by non-UPites. To the rest of India, UP, Bihar, and parts of Madhya Pradesh, Delhi and Haryana are one big ‘Bhaiyya’ blob – the guy who abandons the mofussil mitti, to trundle into metros without the assurance of a bed to dream in.&lt;/i&gt;

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main43.asp?filename=hub270210the_bhaiyya.asp


Bit tongue-in-cheek and over the top in places (teens these days on Lucknow campuses may well indulge in &quot;gang-war&quot; or as we call it &#039;student politics, but very few of them will complement this by reciting Faiz to their pretty classmates; very few kids these days read Faiz) but conveys the basic idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A colleague emailed me this link, which goes over some of the same ground re Bihar from a &#8216;UP-ite&#8217; perspective:</p>
<p><i>RESIDENT UPITES insist that they are pan-Indian: ‘The Hindustani man’. That they have little in common except accidental geography. But they readily admit to one binding feature. As Avinash Pandey Samar, a research scholar at JNU, puts it, “The first characteristic is the huge sense of relief all UPites feel about not being Biharis.” It hurts the UPite’s sense of self to find himself lumped with the Biharis by non-UPites. To the rest of India, UP, Bihar, and parts of Madhya Pradesh, Delhi and Haryana are one big ‘Bhaiyya’ blob – the guy who abandons the mofussil mitti, to trundle into metros without the assurance of a bed to dream in.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.tehelka.com/story_main43.asp?filename=hub270210the_bhaiyya.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.tehelka.com/story_main43.asp?filename=hub270210the_bhaiyya.asp</a></p>
<p>Bit tongue-in-cheek and over the top in places (teens these days on Lucknow campuses may well indulge in &#8220;gang-war&#8221; or as we call it &#8216;student politics, but very few of them will complement this by reciting Faiz to their pretty classmates; very few kids these days read Faiz) but conveys the basic idea.</p>
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		<title>By: annie</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159271</link>
		<dc:creator>annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159271</guid>
		<description>Good reading, this. And yes, it does make me want to read Maila Anchal, for I have read a few short stories by Renu and loved them. Renu was one of the few Hindi writers that stayed in my head long after I was done with the infernal High School Hindi syllabus. There is much to say about &#039;regionalism&#039; and dialects in literature and my own response to them. 
For now, just one minor feminine correction: &#039;Anchal&#039; or &#039;Aanchal&#039; does not refer to the sari border. The border of the sari is something that runs all along the edge/ at the bottom, of the five-yard fabric. The anchal usually refers to the loose end, or the pallu/palla, and can also be used in the context of a dupatta or odhni.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good reading, this. And yes, it does make me want to read Maila Anchal, for I have read a few short stories by Renu and loved them. Renu was one of the few Hindi writers that stayed in my head long after I was done with the infernal High School Hindi syllabus. There is much to say about &#8216;regionalism&#8217; and dialects in literature and my own response to them.<br />
For now, just one minor feminine correction: &#8216;Anchal&#8217; or &#8216;Aanchal&#8217; does not refer to the sari border. The border of the sari is something that runs all along the edge/ at the bottom, of the five-yard fabric. The anchal usually refers to the loose end, or the pallu/palla, and can also be used in the context of a dupatta or odhni.</p>
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		<title>By: Raj</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159265</link>
		<dc:creator>Raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 14:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159265</guid>
		<description>Thank you for sharing this</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for sharing this</p>
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		<title>By: Nanga Fakir</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159263</link>
		<dc:creator>Nanga Fakir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 05:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159263</guid>
		<description>Salutations! From your latest, biggest fan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salutations! From your latest, biggest fan.</p>
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		<title>By: desiknitter</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159259</link>
		<dc:creator>desiknitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159259</guid>
		<description>I wonder if this recourse to a &quot;Hindi aesthetic&quot; for an English novel could itself be termed an &#039;aanchalik&#039; move within Indian-English literature? Just like the earlier movement within Hindi literature sought to come to terms with Hindi&#039;s hegemonic position while trying, nevertheless, to evoke a very particular places, cadences, characters and stories, this one tries to do the same with IWE. 

If the novel is indeed trying to set up a conversation with Hindi literature and IWE in this way, where the trajectory of the Indian-English novel and its &#039;translated&#039; aesthetic is towards the provincial place rather than the metropolitan reader, it would be an interesting, fresh way out to think through, and past authenticity traps or the location angst and  translation quibbles that are the gatekeepers of Indian literary criticism.  The thing is, we don&#039;t even have a conceptual space and vocabulary to discuss and theorize such moves within the rubric of Indian literature in terms of these creative transactions, because linguistic hierarchies and compartments are so sharp and dominated by overt and often puerile political or national/regional questions. Placing an English novel within an &#039;aanchalik&#039; discussion would make little sense to readers of a contemporary English review of this book in either newsmagazines or classrooms because very few would know the history and layered meanings of that term within Hindi literature, or be interested in integrating it into a more nuanced understanding of Indian writing. Those who would, esp. in a Hindi litt. classroom, would probably, as things stand, have little reason or use for a discussion of such a novel for their own critical or creative purposes. How many people read both, and are interested in bringing both discourses together? I am reminded of Bhalchandra Nemade&#039;s polemical formulation of &#039;deshivaad&#039; within Marathi literature a few decades ago, which also has considerable value, if critically fleshed out, for thinking about literary fidelity to place, to lived experience and &#039;the real&#039; in all Indian writing, but it has consistently been watered down in Marathi criticism to a kind of knee-jerk nativism, and used to police the credentials of those who write bilingually, or are interested in supra-local spaces and imaginaries - like Kiran Nagarkar and Arun Kolatkar. In English surveys of &quot;regional literature&quot; Bhalchandra Nemade only serves as an enfant terrible supplier of angry, resentful soundbites about how bhasha literatures are ignored at the expense of &#039;rootless&#039; IWE.

Still, it seems to me that drawing on such cross-literary categories and efforts is also closer to the actual history of modern Indian literatures, which have been aware of, and drawn on ideas and themes from each other and from Western ones. Can criticism and sheer awareness of such interventions in different languages - through bilingual journals, conferences, critical vocabularies - attempt to bridge this gap a little, or is the burden on IWE creative writers to further the conversation with bhasha literatures? The question, of course, is hardly limited only to fiction...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if this recourse to a &#8220;Hindi aesthetic&#8221; for an English novel could itself be termed an &#8216;aanchalik&#8217; move within Indian-English literature? Just like the earlier movement within Hindi literature sought to come to terms with Hindi&#8217;s hegemonic position while trying, nevertheless, to evoke a very particular places, cadences, characters and stories, this one tries to do the same with IWE. </p>
<p>If the novel is indeed trying to set up a conversation with Hindi literature and IWE in this way, where the trajectory of the Indian-English novel and its &#8216;translated&#8217; aesthetic is towards the provincial place rather than the metropolitan reader, it would be an interesting, fresh way out to think through, and past authenticity traps or the location angst and  translation quibbles that are the gatekeepers of Indian literary criticism.  The thing is, we don&#8217;t even have a conceptual space and vocabulary to discuss and theorize such moves within the rubric of Indian literature in terms of these creative transactions, because linguistic hierarchies and compartments are so sharp and dominated by overt and often puerile political or national/regional questions. Placing an English novel within an &#8216;aanchalik&#8217; discussion would make little sense to readers of a contemporary English review of this book in either newsmagazines or classrooms because very few would know the history and layered meanings of that term within Hindi literature, or be interested in integrating it into a more nuanced understanding of Indian writing. Those who would, esp. in a Hindi litt. classroom, would probably, as things stand, have little reason or use for a discussion of such a novel for their own critical or creative purposes. How many people read both, and are interested in bringing both discourses together? I am reminded of Bhalchandra Nemade&#8217;s polemical formulation of &#8216;deshivaad&#8217; within Marathi literature a few decades ago, which also has considerable value, if critically fleshed out, for thinking about literary fidelity to place, to lived experience and &#8216;the real&#8217; in all Indian writing, but it has consistently been watered down in Marathi criticism to a kind of knee-jerk nativism, and used to police the credentials of those who write bilingually, or are interested in supra-local spaces and imaginaries &#8211; like Kiran Nagarkar and Arun Kolatkar. In English surveys of &#8220;regional literature&#8221; Bhalchandra Nemade only serves as an enfant terrible supplier of angry, resentful soundbites about how bhasha literatures are ignored at the expense of &#8216;rootless&#8217; IWE.</p>
<p>Still, it seems to me that drawing on such cross-literary categories and efforts is also closer to the actual history of modern Indian literatures, which have been aware of, and drawn on ideas and themes from each other and from Western ones. Can criticism and sheer awareness of such interventions in different languages &#8211; through bilingual journals, conferences, critical vocabularies &#8211; attempt to bridge this gap a little, or is the burden on IWE creative writers to further the conversation with bhasha literatures? The question, of course, is hardly limited only to fiction&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Qalandar</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159258</link>
		<dc:creator>Qalandar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159258</guid>
		<description>I might add that the negative stereotyping of Biharis also seems to have made its way to the other side of the border as well: an Urdu-speaker from Karachi (family originally from Bihar) himself wryly repeated to me the couplet: &quot;jo kat na saka kisi aaree se / kat gaya woh bihaari se&quot;; and another person insisted that one reason the MQM were troublemakers was because the party was led by Biharis!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might add that the negative stereotyping of Biharis also seems to have made its way to the other side of the border as well: an Urdu-speaker from Karachi (family originally from Bihar) himself wryly repeated to me the couplet: &#8220;jo kat na saka kisi aaree se / kat gaya woh bihaari se&#8221;; and another person insisted that one reason the MQM were troublemakers was because the party was led by Biharis!</p>
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		<title>By: Aligarian</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159257</link>
		<dc:creator>Aligarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159257</guid>
		<description>Rahi Masoom Raza in his famous hindi novel,&quot;Topi Shukla&quot;; has written that being &quot;bihari&quot; has nothing to do with regionalism but rather  it&#039;s a state of mind (Kaifiyat, jo kabhi bhi, kisi pe bhi aa sakti hai). And this line is oft quoted in AMU, as the anecdotes from this novel are very popular in Aligarh. The novel is story of two friends, Balhadra Narayan Shukla and Iffan, and former because of his friendship with Iffan, earns the nickname topi, as a sarcastic reference to cap worn by muslims. A very interesting novel, which not only deals with Hindu Muslim relationships in post partition era in India (with AMU as it&#039;s backdrop), but extends it to tensions between urdu and hindi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rahi Masoom Raza in his famous hindi novel,&#8221;Topi Shukla&#8221;; has written that being &#8220;bihari&#8221; has nothing to do with regionalism but rather  it&#8217;s a state of mind (Kaifiyat, jo kabhi bhi, kisi pe bhi aa sakti hai). And this line is oft quoted in AMU, as the anecdotes from this novel are very popular in Aligarh. The novel is story of two friends, Balhadra Narayan Shukla and Iffan, and former because of his friendship with Iffan, earns the nickname topi, as a sarcastic reference to cap worn by muslims. A very interesting novel, which not only deals with Hindu Muslim relationships in post partition era in India (with AMU as it&#8217;s backdrop), but extends it to tensions between urdu and hindi.</p>
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		<title>By: desiknitter</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159253</link>
		<dc:creator>desiknitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159253</guid>
		<description>Superb post, Lapata, thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it - you&#039;ve made me want to go read Home Products, and also Maila Aanchal. Please continue this series of posts on Indian/Hindi/English/translated literature!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superb post, Lapata, thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it &#8211; you&#8217;ve made me want to go read Home Products, and also Maila Aanchal. Please continue this series of posts on Indian/Hindi/English/translated literature!</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Barwa</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159250</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Barwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159250</guid>
		<description>LOL, well the EPW has an article on the &#039;booming Bihar&#039;

http://epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/14459.pdf

I think Nitish Kumar is a relatively decent politician (by Indian standards) and is making a go of it. He passed over appointing one of his own relatives as Chief Secretary, 2 years ago, (an individual who was an outstanding IAS officer) and this is unheard of in a place like Bihar as you can imagine. Unfortunately, it seems to be too little, too late really; though after the bifurcation; most of the worst problems are now to be found in Jharkhand.

As another aside, with Lapata&#039;s comment about prejudice towards Biharis and Bihari jokes; this seems less common to me now than say 20 years ago - or it could just be my perceptions but the use of language still reflects this kind of attitude towards Bihar. Peter Gottschalk in his book &quot;Beyond Hindu and Muslim&quot; recounts how &#039;going to Bihar&#039; among the villagers he was with in UP, was slang for engaging in gay sex, the view being that any deviant sexual activity naturally had to be normal in a place like Bihar. I always enjoyed telling this to me Bihari friends and watching them convulse with rage :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, well the EPW has an article on the &#8216;booming Bihar&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/14459.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/14459.pdf</a></p>
<p>I think Nitish Kumar is a relatively decent politician (by Indian standards) and is making a go of it. He passed over appointing one of his own relatives as Chief Secretary, 2 years ago, (an individual who was an outstanding IAS officer) and this is unheard of in a place like Bihar as you can imagine. Unfortunately, it seems to be too little, too late really; though after the bifurcation; most of the worst problems are now to be found in Jharkhand.</p>
<p>As another aside, with Lapata&#8217;s comment about prejudice towards Biharis and Bihari jokes; this seems less common to me now than say 20 years ago &#8211; or it could just be my perceptions but the use of language still reflects this kind of attitude towards Bihar. Peter Gottschalk in his book &#8220;Beyond Hindu and Muslim&#8221; recounts how &#8216;going to Bihar&#8217; among the villagers he was with in UP, was slang for engaging in gay sex, the view being that any deviant sexual activity naturally had to be normal in a place like Bihar. I always enjoyed telling this to me Bihari friends and watching them convulse with rage :D</p>
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		<title>By: Qalandar</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159249</link>
		<dc:creator>Qalandar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159249</guid>
		<description>Aside: in the era of Nitish Kumar Bihar does seem to be getting a new makeover of late.  Some of this is undoubtedly better spin-doctoring, but some of this appears to be that the current Bihar government appears to now be attaining the same standards for (mis-) governance as are familiar to us from the rest of the country!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside: in the era of Nitish Kumar Bihar does seem to be getting a new makeover of late.  Some of this is undoubtedly better spin-doctoring, but some of this appears to be that the current Bihar government appears to now be attaining the same standards for (mis-) governance as are familiar to us from the rest of the country!</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Barwa</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159244</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Barwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159244</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Bihar is what is known in the US as flyover country. In the phrase of the guidebooks of old, ‘there is nothing here that need detain the traveler’– unless the traveler is Buddhist, and going to Gaya and Bodh Gaya. When one opens the papers in other parts of India, there is invariably news of some ghastly crime or another that has taken place in Bihar, or a corruption scandal, or some other example of ‘backwardness’ to add to the pile of reasons why we never would want to get out of the train in Bihar. A Bihari accent in Hindi is to be avoided, and makes a person sound uneducated, and of course, because poverty is widespread in Bihar, many laborers and servants in Calcutta, Delhi and Bombay are from Bihar. In my experience in India, it has always seemed as though prejudice toward Bihar and Biharis does not need to be hidden; Bihari jokes are never off-limits.&lt;/i&gt;


This is a repeated claim and in many ways true; and I speak as someone who has a lot of connections with Bihar, my mother was born there, and her family lived there for many years and I grew up there as she was allocated to the Bihar cadre in the civil service. My Hindi is very much shot through with Bihari colloquialisms, which tend to elicit a fair amount of laughter (much of which is good-natured it must be said) when I moved to Delhi. The prevailing attitude towards Bihar and Biharis was as you describe, always seen as a den of casteism, corruption and violence. However, the more time I spent in other parts of India, in places like UP, Haryana, Rajasthan and MP; the less this rang true. There seems to be little difference in these terms between much of UP, especially Purvanchal and Bihar; police corruption, brutality and the lack of order in the countryside don&#039;t seem much different; the abuse of power by scions of the ruling establishment are as apparent in places like Haryana (those who have had the misfortune to come across them will attest to this) as in Bihar and as for things like dacoity or crime; well one only needs to go to the outskirts of Delhi, in places like Ghaziabad after dark to see the problems here. More and more, there always seemed to be something uncomfortable about such assertions regarding Bihar; as if there was a determination to show that however bad things were there, it wasn&#039;t as bad as Bihar and part was the metropolitan fantasy that actually only in lawless backwaters like Bihar is the situation like this and is not the norm for most of India. Periodically of course this breaks down, as whenever advocates decide to go on a rampage, destroying court property and battling it out with the police or when disputes over scheduled status between caste/tribal groups like the Meenas and Gujjars can bring large parts of the NCT&#039;s hinterland to a standstill. While there is an underlying realisation that the problems of Bihar, are really the problems of most of India; it still serves as a reassuring ideological deflection to be held up as the ultimate metaphor or symbol of what is worst. This along with the fact that, the Hindi belt actually contains a huge chunk of the population, probably makes it perhaps a little different from what &#039;flyover&#039; country would normally mean in the US.


I enjoyed the article very much, though I felt you were somewhat harsh on Dubey&#039;s character - is it really that he has only the dimmest idea of what realism is, or is it that along with so many Hindi cinema viewers, he cannot bear to have to watch it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Bihar is what is known in the US as flyover country. In the phrase of the guidebooks of old, ‘there is nothing here that need detain the traveler’– unless the traveler is Buddhist, and going to Gaya and Bodh Gaya. When one opens the papers in other parts of India, there is invariably news of some ghastly crime or another that has taken place in Bihar, or a corruption scandal, or some other example of ‘backwardness’ to add to the pile of reasons why we never would want to get out of the train in Bihar. A Bihari accent in Hindi is to be avoided, and makes a person sound uneducated, and of course, because poverty is widespread in Bihar, many laborers and servants in Calcutta, Delhi and Bombay are from Bihar. In my experience in India, it has always seemed as though prejudice toward Bihar and Biharis does not need to be hidden; Bihari jokes are never off-limits.</i></p>
<p>This is a repeated claim and in many ways true; and I speak as someone who has a lot of connections with Bihar, my mother was born there, and her family lived there for many years and I grew up there as she was allocated to the Bihar cadre in the civil service. My Hindi is very much shot through with Bihari colloquialisms, which tend to elicit a fair amount of laughter (much of which is good-natured it must be said) when I moved to Delhi. The prevailing attitude towards Bihar and Biharis was as you describe, always seen as a den of casteism, corruption and violence. However, the more time I spent in other parts of India, in places like UP, Haryana, Rajasthan and MP; the less this rang true. There seems to be little difference in these terms between much of UP, especially Purvanchal and Bihar; police corruption, brutality and the lack of order in the countryside don&#8217;t seem much different; the abuse of power by scions of the ruling establishment are as apparent in places like Haryana (those who have had the misfortune to come across them will attest to this) as in Bihar and as for things like dacoity or crime; well one only needs to go to the outskirts of Delhi, in places like Ghaziabad after dark to see the problems here. More and more, there always seemed to be something uncomfortable about such assertions regarding Bihar; as if there was a determination to show that however bad things were there, it wasn&#8217;t as bad as Bihar and part was the metropolitan fantasy that actually only in lawless backwaters like Bihar is the situation like this and is not the norm for most of India. Periodically of course this breaks down, as whenever advocates decide to go on a rampage, destroying court property and battling it out with the police or when disputes over scheduled status between caste/tribal groups like the Meenas and Gujjars can bring large parts of the NCT&#8217;s hinterland to a standstill. While there is an underlying realisation that the problems of Bihar, are really the problems of most of India; it still serves as a reassuring ideological deflection to be held up as the ultimate metaphor or symbol of what is worst. This along with the fact that, the Hindi belt actually contains a huge chunk of the population, probably makes it perhaps a little different from what &#8216;flyover&#8217; country would normally mean in the US.</p>
<p>I enjoyed the article very much, though I felt you were somewhat harsh on Dubey&#8217;s character &#8211; is it really that he has only the dimmest idea of what realism is, or is it that along with so many Hindi cinema viewers, he cannot bear to have to watch it?</p>
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		<title>By: Qalandar</title>
		<link>http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/optical_character_recognition/flyover_country.html/comment-page-1#comment-159242</link>
		<dc:creator>Qalandar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4709#comment-159242</guid>
		<description>On Vikram Chandra, I would also add that bhis work has (in my view, unfairly) suffered from a view that his works are insufficiently literary -- I am thinking here of, specifically, Sacred Games, which is at some level a &quot;page-turner&quot;.  I found it interesting (and unexpected) that Chandra should be used as an example of the Indian writer-in-English, because I think he is one of those who straddles different &quot;vernaculars&quot;, in a way many other writers-in-English do not.  Rushdie is a case in point: for anyone who is familiar with Bollywood, that is to say, not &quot;familiar&quot; in the sense of having watched a few/many films and knowing &quot;what B&#039;wood films are about&quot;, and watching them &quot;condescendingly&quot; as it were; but someone who is &quot;at home&quot; in the Bollyverse, Rushdie&#039;s representation of the film star in The Satanic Verses is -- to use your phrase -- &quot;unsuccessful ... in the art of realism&quot; (magic or otherwise); reading what I otherwise consider Rushdie&#039;s best novel, it seemed obvious to me that Rushdie doesn&#039;t seem to have seen very many Hindi films at all, the whole world was just &quot;off.&quot;  That&#039;s not the impression I&#039;ve gotten from whatever I&#039;ve read by Vikram Chandra (who, incidentally, has written scripts for Bollywood films, and is the brother of one of the Hindi film industry&#039;s few female directors)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Vikram Chandra, I would also add that bhis work has (in my view, unfairly) suffered from a view that his works are insufficiently literary &#8212; I am thinking here of, specifically, Sacred Games, which is at some level a &#8220;page-turner&#8221;.  I found it interesting (and unexpected) that Chandra should be used as an example of the Indian writer-in-English, because I think he is one of those who straddles different &#8220;vernaculars&#8221;, in a way many other writers-in-English do not.  Rushdie is a case in point: for anyone who is familiar with Bollywood, that is to say, not &#8220;familiar&#8221; in the sense of having watched a few/many films and knowing &#8220;what B&#8217;wood films are about&#8221;, and watching them &#8220;condescendingly&#8221; as it were; but someone who is &#8220;at home&#8221; in the Bollyverse, Rushdie&#8217;s representation of the film star in The Satanic Verses is &#8212; to use your phrase &#8212; &#8220;unsuccessful &#8230; in the art of realism&#8221; (magic or otherwise); reading what I otherwise consider Rushdie&#8217;s best novel, it seemed obvious to me that Rushdie doesn&#8217;t seem to have seen very many Hindi films at all, the whole world was just &#8220;off.&#8221;  That&#8217;s not the impression I&#8217;ve gotten from whatever I&#8217;ve read by Vikram Chandra (who, incidentally, has written scripts for Bollywood films, and is the brother of one of the Hindi film industry&#8217;s few female directors)&#8230;</p>
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