Comments on: The Nation Forum on Afghanistan http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html what is the vertiginous chapati saying to me? Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:40:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Conrad Barwa http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-158062 Conrad Barwa Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:16:20 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-158062 An interesting read, more because of who he managed to interview, from Abdul Ghazi to Malauna Fazullah, is Nicholas Schmidle's book "To live or to Perish Forever: Two tumultous years in Pakistan". I didn't like a lot of the author's judgements but it was a rare look into various parts of Pakistan that are rarely reported on directly from Baluchistan to interactions with several of the Rem Mosque leaders before it was stormed. An interesting read, more because of who he managed to interview, from Abdul Ghazi to Malauna Fazullah, is Nicholas Schmidle’s book “To live or to Perish Forever: Two tumultous years in Pakistan”. I didn’t like a lot of the author’s judgements but it was a rare look into various parts of Pakistan that are rarely reported on directly from Baluchistan to interactions with several of the Rem Mosque leaders before it was stormed.

]]> By: omar http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-158010 omar Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:10:18 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-158010 Salman ji, NOT nukes in the hands of terrorists, but nukes in the hands of a military establishment that is in bed with terrorists and will use the terrorists against afghanistan and India and will ultimately find itself fighting a war with both......My conspiracy theory beats your "nukes in the hands of terrorists" theory hands down... Salman ji, NOT nukes in the hands of terrorists, but nukes in the hands of a military establishment that is in bed with terrorists and will use the terrorists against afghanistan and India and will ultimately find itself fighting a war with both……My conspiracy theory beats your “nukes in the hands of terrorists” theory hands down…

]]> By: Salman http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-157990 Salman Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:57:15 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-157990 Hmmm Nukes! Hands of Terrorists! I might have heard that argument before. Not sure, though. http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/that_terror_thing_iii.html Hmmm Nukes! Hands of Terrorists!
I might have heard that argument before. Not sure, though.
http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/that_terror_thing_iii.html

]]> By: omar ali http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-157986 omar ali Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:42:09 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-157986 btw, Can someone outline a scenario in which the Nation would SUPPORT a US military mission in Afghanistan? If not, then I suggest that their "analysis" is an example of taking a position (anti-war, morally perfectly defensible) and then going out and finding any evidence they can to bolster their position. Personally, I dont think the US does a great job of policing the world. And I certainly dont think it always or even usually acts in the interests of poor people in the region they are policing. Like the police everywhere, their first job is to protect the property of the rich (mostly their own). Ideally, they should never have gone into Afghanistan and occupied it. As an American, I think we should pull out and stay out. As a Pakistani, I am not so sure. I suspect that we have already set in motion a jihadi machine that will not stop if the US leaves and that our own state is neither able nor willing to handle it (and would prefer to point outwards to India and Afghanistan). With 50 nuclear bombs (which supposedly work more reliably than India's rickety collection of semi-duds) and lots of grievances, I see far too much "collateral damage" down the road.... btw, Can someone outline a scenario in which the Nation would SUPPORT a US military mission in Afghanistan? If not, then I suggest that their “analysis” is an example of taking a position (anti-war, morally perfectly defensible) and then going out and finding any evidence they can to bolster their position.
Personally, I dont think the US does a great job of policing the world. And I certainly dont think it always or even usually acts in the interests of poor people in the region they are policing. Like the police everywhere, their first job is to protect the property of the rich (mostly their own).
Ideally, they should never have gone into Afghanistan and occupied it. As an American, I think we should pull out and stay out. As a Pakistani, I am not so sure. I suspect that we have already set in motion a jihadi machine that will not stop if the US leaves and that our own state is neither able nor willing to handle it (and would prefer to point outwards to India and Afghanistan). With 50 nuclear bombs (which supposedly work more reliably than India’s rickety collection of semi-duds) and lots of grievances, I see far too much “collateral damage” down the road….

]]> By: omar ali http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-157982 omar ali Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:33:50 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-157982 Manan, Your view of Pakistan assumes that the civilians are already strong enough in Pakistan that the army would not slide back to full jihadi mode even if the US were to leave the region. I think that assumption is faulty. The army is starting to fight some of its old students and trainees, but it is determined to hold on to its dominant position in the power structure. If the US were to leave suddenly (as opposed to achieving some sort of functioning Afghan regime and forcing the taliban to accept a political deal rather than continued fighting) the army will go back to its old ways. That is their default setting. And there is no civilian force strong enough yet to stop them. You also underestimate the power of the taliban/jihadi network and the depth of their support in Pakistan, especially in the army. Without significant US help, they will not be defeated by the army even if the army wants to stay on the job. We can reconnect after a few months to see where things stand...btw, I am willing to consider that if the people of that region want a certain jihadi ideology and are willing to fight for it, why should the US be there killing people (no matter how surgically, and I think the US army is actually a much more surgical instrument than any of the local armies, who cause far more collateral damage)? Let the people in the region kill each other or not. Let the US leave. But let us not sell some illusion about how peaceful everything will be if only the US leaves.... Manan, Your view of Pakistan assumes that the civilians are already strong enough in Pakistan that the army would not slide back to full jihadi mode even if the US were to leave the region. I think that assumption is faulty. The army is starting to fight some of its old students and trainees, but it is determined to hold on to its dominant position in the power structure. If the US were to leave suddenly (as opposed to achieving some sort of functioning Afghan regime and forcing the taliban to accept a political deal rather than continued fighting) the army will go back to its old ways. That is their default setting. And there is no civilian force strong enough yet to stop them. You also underestimate the power of the taliban/jihadi network and the depth of their support in Pakistan, especially in the army. Without significant US help, they will not be defeated by the army even if the army wants to stay on the job. We can reconnect after a few months to see where things stand…btw, I am willing to consider that if the people of that region want a certain jihadi ideology and are willing to fight for it, why should the US be there killing people (no matter how surgically, and I think the US army is actually a much more surgical instrument than any of the local armies, who cause far more collateral damage)? Let the people in the region kill each other or not. Let the US leave. But let us not sell some illusion about how peaceful everything will be if only the US leaves….

]]> By: Qalandar http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-157978 Qalandar Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:28:28 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-157978 Congrats, and thanks for the shout! Congrats, and thanks for the shout!

]]> By: pf http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/the_nation_forum_on_afghanistan.html/comment-page-1#comment-157975 pf Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:04:47 +0000 http://www.chapatimystery.com/?p=4335#comment-157975 Empty rhetoric —Najmuddin A Shaikh The only conclusion that the world could draw was that no one studies things in Pakistan or, having studied them, deliberately keeps quiet until a false crisis can be created: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/print.asp?page=2009\10\23\story_23-10-2009_pg3_2 Empty rhetoric —Najmuddin A Shaikh

The only conclusion that the world could draw was that no one studies things in Pakistan or, having studied them, deliberately keeps quiet until a false crisis can be created:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/print.asp?page=2009\10\23\story_23-10-2009_pg3_2

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