So, I turn to you, my collective hive brain. Who is this “Dr.” “Prof.” Zaid Hamid? He has, from most accounts, secured a niche similar to Glenn Beck in Pakistani media – combining ultra-nationalism with a taste for finding Zionist or Hindu involvement in the Pakistani sphere. Here he explains, for example, what truths lie behind “conspiracy theories”:
“We are against the Zionist politics of the Brahmanical elite”. Alrighty then. Some other hair-raising stuff here with Ali Azmat.
He is also, through his privately produced program Brass Tacks, engaged in producing historical narratives – from Khalid b. Walid to 1857 – the “War of Independence”. (“More Indians were killed by the British between 1757 and 1857 than at any time in the previous 5000 years”). Naturally, this makes me very, very interested in him, professionally speaking.
The cursory searches on the internets reveal all kind of contestations – he is an agent of ISPR, he is a true Muslim, he is a former acolyte of a claimant to the Prophethood, he is a true Muslim, etc. What I am really interested in, is figuring out his audiences, his appeals to them, and his theories of media (and mediation). His wiki page is no more than a stub. Can we fill this profile up? Can we place him on a scale of Glenn Beck to Yusuf al-Qaradawi?
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“Zionist politics of the Brahmminical elite”!! LOL, that was classic, damn those Hinjews!
His fans would be well advised to do what the man says: read, research. If they do, they will find that the whole third tower theory has been debunked. His fan following appears to have been lulled into complacency, confident that listening to what he says makes up for any research they could have done. He does mix some facts into his fiction, which helps with the complacency.
One thing several people have told me is that they are attracted to him because of his “personality”. This usually translates to the green eyes, light skin, red cap covering up the receding hair that nevertheless hangs fashionably long at the back, and command of English. This should not be underestimated. We Pakistanis are suckers for these things.
I might also add that he appears to piggyback off of some of Niall Ferguson’s writings on financial history — adding a “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”-type cocktail, of course.
It must be said, however, that he is tapping into a deep wellspring of despair and disillusionment… I arrived in the US three years ago, and haven’t had to encounter the 12-hour load shedding and the inflation and governmental ineptitude and bombings, and can sort of see why the youth are flocking to his banner in droves… in their desperation for an alternative, a lot of people have taken his bait…
The Ali Azmat video should serve as a wakeup call… people like him and Imran Khan and Ahmed Qureshi will only win more converts like Azmat if the government continues to shoot itself in the foot… Hamid and Qureshi and Khan kept going on about the lavish lifestyles of the ruling elite, the load shedding, the shady defense deals, the corruption, the creaking judicial system, and it is hard to disagree that all this needs to change, and fast… what is needed is a charismatic, populist alternative from the liberal/left side of the spectrum, who can highlight the ridiculousness and bigotry of some of Hamid’s arguments on the one hand and speak out for reform (not revolution), something that has been ceded to the likes of Hamid and Khan…
But who could serve that role? NFP has mellowed significantly, and he and the likes of Fasi Zaka speak only to a tiny audience that continues to shrink, as the NYT video showed… the level-headed writers in Dawn and Daily Times suffer from the same problem… Pervez Hoodbhoy, for all his erudition, lacks the populist charm and charisma that Hamid possesses…
Aitzaz Ahsan, perhaps?
What a coincidence. I am planning to give a presentation on conspiracy theories in Pakistan. The lal topi will of course be a major highlight. Here are some of the satire works on him: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zaid-Hamid/51469458372?ref=ts
An intell. source confirmed that he is sponsored by the Invisible Soldiers Incorporated. A simple analysis of his work shows who the main beneficiaries of his talk are.
Say more, Anon. Where is this presentation on conspiracy theories? Sounds mucho interesting since I, too, am thinking on those lines recently: twitter.com/sepoy
I am currently collecting literature for it. A lot of columnists have tried to debunk his claims. I will be presenting it at my university for a course.
More ZaidHamidisms:
What Balochi rights? They say that Balochi land is their mother; well they sold their mother to Oman. What gas? Punjab provides grain and agriculture products to all of the country. Should Punjab say, no, this is my resource and not the country’s? Why did Balochis celebrate Independence on 15th August? (Suggesting that their 15th August celebration was a celebration of India’s Independence). This insinuation came at the heels of “India is funding BLA Terrorists.” There was no mention of Kalat’s declaration of Independence. In fact there was no mention of Kalat at all or what was Balochistan pre-Pakistan or what is contemporary Balochistan other than part of the acronym BLA.
If I recall correctly, he asserted that CIA had something to do with the lawyer’s movement.
Qardawi, from what I have read about him, has some religious credentials in terms of training and following. Zaid Hamid seems to be peddling some blend of Pakistani religious nationalism, with a pan-Islamic political focus vis-à-vis foreign policy. He also wishes to ignite a spirit of self confidence and spiritual quest in Pakistanis, by claiming to have found a hadith that says the army that conquers Hind will also conquer the Holy land. Someone said, well that has already happened. He replied that that army conquered the Holy land first and later turned their attention towards Hind and his interpretation is that the Hadith is about the army that will conquer Hind first and then go to the Holy land. This assertion came at the back of the story about Zaid Hamid being on Hajj/Umra and meeting a Palestinian family. The Palestinian family was very pleased that he is from Pakistan, and according to him, said that they know that it would eventually be Pakistani forces that will liberate Palestine. He also managed to keep Zia’s role in Black September out of his narrative and his “concern” for Palestinians and any mention of Palestinians was through the Zaid Hamid lens of what Zionists and Free Masons were doing to Palestinians. In that narrative Palestinians don’t exist in any role other than faceless and nameless victims of “evil ideology”. This ignorance of Palestinian society or politics is convenient both for his audience and for him, because no one needs to do any reading or make an effort towards getting to know any aspect of Palestinian nationalism/politics/society. Also by not portraying Palestinians as a unique/distinct people or discussing what makes them a distinct nation, the Palestinian becomes yet another example of an under-assault/oppressed Muslim with that being his only attribute. In the same manner Kashmiris, Chechens, Iraqis, Afghanis etc are added to the list of Zaid hamid’s indifferentiable homogenous oppressed Muslims.
His discussion of Dagestan was hilarious as well. Mountain people of Dagestan are so “haseen,” tall, broad, and handsome, that you would think that they are Devs(giants). His episode on Imam Shamil also had an action sequence in it where Imam Shamil jumps over some Russian soldiers after being stabbed in his abdomen with a sword. So the style of presentation is that of an old grand parent telling stories about a bygone era with mythic heros, sort of an Amir Hamza saga (a childhood fav of mine – Muqbil Wafadar the archer, Amir Hamza, Umru Ayar, Lindhoor etc.)
Oh, and I think he also collaborates with Harun Yahya and might be claiming a pie in the creationist crowd as well.
“Can we place him on a scale of Glenn Beck to Yusuf al-Qaradawi?”
May be a cross between David Gaubatz (who “claimed that he found Saddam’s long-lost WMDs while in Iraq and has labeled Obama “Muslim” ” http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/man_behind_intern_spy_wars_muslim_mafia_author_david_gaubatz.php ) and Glenn Beck (teary eyes etc.) with a touch of Iqbalesque immitation in terms of ‘Khudi ko kar buland Itna.’
Btw, does anyone know why he endorses Ron Paul? Is Ron Paul guilty by association?
V. interesting Salman. Can you point me to the place where he uses the hadith about al-hind and jerusalem? Also, where/how is he funded? These programs are produced by him, yes? ISPR/ISI, really?
Also, where/how is he funded?
That is the question!
Darn it, I shouldn’t have taken out the disclaimer from my comment, i.e. I’ll have to be paid to watch his videos :)
I’ll try to find the video where he mentions the Hadith, but I think it was titled something to the tune of “spiritual forces” aired in 2008, and unlike his usual cute chick asking pre-drafted questions, this video had some audience as well. If I remember correctly, he talked about the need to develop a spiritual underpinning of politics/foreign policy on the lines of/like “God gave Israel to Jews” and then unveils the so-called “Ghazva-e-Hind” hadith.
Don’t know about who’s funding him or if he has anything to do with ISI/ISPR, but if I remember correctly he claims to be a veteran “volunteer” of Afghan-Soviet war. Watch his Afghanistan video, and if I remember correctly he seemed to be claiming to have played a role in trying to open up a channel between Ahmed Shah Masood and Pakistan Army/government with the help of M.M Alam (the famed fighter pilot) suggesting contact between him and ISI.
It is my understanding that he produced the brass tack programs himself. Although, I recall seeing his picture with Harun Yahya ( http://tabsir.net/?p=979 ) on his website once, and wondering who the heck is that. Is there a link between him and Yahya? It might be that he is modelling himself and his “scholarship”, and thus his enterprise on Harun Yahya’s.
Oh and Muhammad Bin Qasim was sent to India because Paleet hindu ne musmil women ki izzat per hath daala tha. I know that there was a rape (Dogs of God: http://books.google.com/books?id=ZYaCgnU44t4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=dogs+of+god&ei=NKINS7j4L5DczQS374T1Ag#v=onepage&q=cava&f=false) in the Tariq Bin Ziyad story, but this assertion about Qassim sounds too (L)Bollywoodish.
“seeing his picture with Harun Yahya”. should read “his picture alongside Yahya’s.”
So the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) beneficiaries list comes out. The media is happy that those persons who enjoyed taking advantage of the NRO have light casted upon them, while the government is trying to push forward the argument of how they have respected the Supreme Court’s judgment and have publicized the list. It seems to be a win-win situation for all parties. But is it really? Calls for the resignation of ministries and portfolios have echoed from all corners. How has this zero-sum game turned into a finger-pointing-name-calling battle?
http://ahraza.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/so-what-its-just-the-nro/
I think I can sum up Mr. Lal-topi’s view of the world in a sentence:
Reality is a liberal conspiracy
Sepoy, here you go. Skip to 3:30 if you don’t want to put yourself through it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuwRjQ9dnMM&feature=related
Zaid Hamid is not any where close to Sheikh Yusuf Al Qardawi. Z.H. is nothing in front of him based on knowledge.
None of us know where he got his education from, where he was born, who were his parents, where had he lived through out his life.
His life is shady and as such our Pakistani nation is, they would just ride on a Bandwagon into a hole of catastrophe.
Until we know his past, I, my self, will remain super extra critical to what he says, check it from other sources dozens of times and then accept it if it has sound basing.
but his popularity is alarming.
@Akbar
George Saliba on his book Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance
http://www.rorotoko.com/index.php/article/george_saliba_book_interview_islamic_science_making_european_renaissance/
@Salman,
Now, now, Islamic science was just knowledge that was collected from the Hindus
and Greeks. You can quibble about whether Muslims put anything new into it. If Islam
was such a great force then why did the region die when new route was established
by passing the middle man status. It died because there was nothing their to begin with.
Anything interesting happening in middle east happen long before the jews.
May be relevant to this discussion
http://www.rorotoko.com/index.php/article/ron_fritze_invented_knowledge_false_history_fake_science_pseudo-religions/
Re: “He replied that that army conquered the Holy land first and later turned their attention towards Hind and his interpretation is that the Hadith is about the army that will conquer Hind first and then go to the Holy land.”
But isn’t that already true of the Brits?!
gents, if you’re in the mood for some entertainment with zaid trackeriya:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Rssf65F7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smHmFfWZO5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvAb30sxa2Y
I ve followed Mr. Zaid Hamid on TV for sometime. I ve never been a conspiracy theorist, however most of the stuff he speaks makes sense. Those of my friends who prefer to criticize Mr. Hamid do it while sitting outside Pakistan and without having to feel what the realities are on ground in Pakistan. If u ask a person on the street who has never even heard of Hamid, he would also give you similar feelings about US, Zionists and India. Its because so much mess has been created in Pakistan for last 30 years that the thought process invariably leads of conspiracies. As for my Indian friends, i only ask one thing. just look at two very unusual events in last decade, attack on Indian parliament in 2001 and Mumbai attacks in 2008, just see who benefited from these events, surely its India, Pakistan lost a lot. Agencies or Government in Pakistan could not have been so naive to shoot themselves in the foot. So? does it lead to a conspiracy theory? surely it does. If mr. Hamid is an ultra nationalist, thats great. Ultra nationalism is exactly what we require.
Qalandar, i guess the Brits were doing God’s work then :)
As for my Indian friends, i only ask one thing. just look at two very unusual events in last decade, attack on Indian parliament in 2001 and Mumbai attacks in 2008, just see who benefited from these events, surely its India, Pakistan lost a lot.
Don’t think India benefited from the 2001 attacks, it actually showed the weakness of Indian strategic thinking with the problems of Operation Parakaram that followed. I don’t see much of benefits that flowed from the 2008 attacks either. If you think these were some how designed by an agency to benefit India, then that is indeed a conspiracy theory.
Dear chapati/roti,
we invited z. hamid to our university (don’t ask..still trying to figure out why). He seems to appeal to the semi-literate and half-baked eduacated urban classes. But that’s only my two cents. I know a few people who are doing academic work on the al-hoda/farhat hashmi phenomenon. Wonder if there’s an overlap in their fan base?
oh well, guess it’s back to that genius zakir naik for me.
best wishes,
K.
“Qalandar, i guess the Brits were doing God’s work then :)” shouls have added LOL to it.
The link that I posted for Akbar, relates to a prioir conversation on “Paleo-Talibothra Found” here at CM.
Even if India did benefit from the attacks, that points to the political savvy of Indian officials. That Inida (supposedly) benefitted in the aftermath, doesn’t mean that they caused it. It will be somewhat akin to saying that catastrophes are caused to elicit aid etc. Conspiracy Theory Indeed.
Re: “I ve followed Mr. Zaid Hamid on TV for sometime. I ve never been a conspiracy theorist, however most of the stuff he speaks makes sense.”
I first came across “Brass Tacks” when someone sent me youtube links to a series he did on the world financial system etc. (one of the upshots was that the decision to leave the gold standard was a Jewish conspiracy). And that’s just one aspect of it. Most of it certainly made no sense to me.
I believe these were the episodes I saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MikFYbcJMg
Re: “Its because so much mess has been created in Pakistan for last 30 years that the thought process invariably leads of conspiracies. ”
It’s the inevitability that one questions. By this yardstick only conspiracies could explain Africa’s Great lakes region. The sad truth is that, as Arendt wisely observed in “The Origins of Totalitarianism”, conspiracy theories are in fact re-assuring — because they testify to a world where the old categories of good/evil, personal agency, etc. matter. One matters in a world where the dominant system is geared toward crushing one. The truly disorienting recognition is of a world where one is being crushed by a pitiless machine that just does not care.
Sorry, meant to include this Part 2 as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erQ48Pr7ax0
Re: “…just see who benefited from these events, surely its India, Pakistan lost a lot.”
A number of people told me in March that India stood to benefit from the attack on the Sri Lankan team in Lahore, and hence that it must have been behind the attack. I remember saying at the time that India would only be hurt by the attack — confirmed by the IPL’s relocation to South Africa (that it would coincide with the Indian elections was always known; it was only after the Lahore attacks that that became an issue; and after the New Zealand board made noises to the effect that it might not clear its players to play in India that season), and subsequent (lower-profile) cancellations such as the Australian Davis Cup team’s tie in Chennai, or the English team pulling out of the world badminton championships in Hyderabad. While I don’t set all that much store by rationality (as Conrad noted on another thread, the rationality of a particular actor/group of actors might be different from our rationality; i.e. something is or is not rational depending on one’s aims, worldview, agenda, etc.), the notion of “who benefited” is itself hardly self-evident (I personally think the Mumbai attacks damaged India, clearly demonstrating the ineptitude and creakiness of the state (which shouldn’t have come as a surprise, but hey) to the very social groups/classes who had most invested in the self-image of a “rising India”; and to the world at large. The Congress government certainly was skillful in the AFTERMATH (far more so than the NDA was in 2001), not least (on the domestic front) in “de-communalizing” the aftermath, and admittedly (on the international front) aided by mind-boggling clumsiness by the Pakistani establishment, bordering on amateurishness — but all the skillfulness in the world after the fact could not make up for the spectacle — televised worldwide for three days — of complete and utter Indian impotence in the face of a handful of armed gunmen. I find the notion that these attacks benefited India to be ridiculous — IMO, what people really mean when they say this is that because the Mumbai attacks harmed Pakistan’s international standing and its civilian leadership (they certainly did), they MUST HAVE benefited India.
We all wanna feel special – Zaid Hamid Feels special too naaa!
I think I will diagnose him as histrionic with delusional tendencies. He also has some unresolved trauma issues. But what the hell do I know. I am just a social worker. :D
George Saliba on his book Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance
Salman
Thanks for the link
LOL
“We are against the Zionist politics of the Brahmanical elite”.
that’s the most ridiculous comment i’ve ever heard.
well, maybe other than this:
“Al Gore’s not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization…And you must silence all dissenting voices. That’s what Hitler did. That’s what Al Gore, the U.N., and everybody on the global warming bandwagon [are doing].” – Glenn Beck
Yes, Glenn Beck. That’s the perfect analogy.
This also reminds me of the time an imam told my friend that Coca-Cola is owned by a Jewish company and, if you look inside a Coca-Cola bottle and read the writing backwards, it says “Allah is not God and the Prophet Muhammad is not God’s messenger.”
Needless to say we found this ridiculous.
“If you hold up a Coke can to the mirror, the writing says ‘No Allah’,” Mr Ream said. “Or maybe ‘No Mohammad’. I can’t remember which.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jul/05/iraq.rorycarroll
Alaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ALaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
BISMILAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I guess Zaid Hamid is not the only one peddling scary kooky stuff.
“Others told of being draped in Israeli flags during interrogation, a claim corroborated by the FBI, while one interrogator explicitly told al-Dossari that ‘a holy war was occurring, between the Cross and the Star of David on the one hand, and the Crescent on the other.’ ” http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/article.php3?id_article=2390
This guy is definitely Pakistan’s answer to Glenn Beck.
But mind you, on the Indian side some people are seeing visions of an ISI sponsored global jihad as well. I am sorry to say that this website is where I first heard of the Ghazwat-ul-Hind trope/idea. This Indian blogger reported it in a fairly breathless manner.
Now considering the economic downturn thats gone on, don’t you think its sort of expected that we have a global trend of people like Glenn Beck, the BNP, the Swiss voters and this Zaid Hamid character (and God knows who they have in India) coming to the fore?
I have to mention that the BNP have some whopper conspiracy theories amongst themselves too. Will this hard right trend continue?
Oh yeah,
The Officers and Soldiers of Pakistan are Listening to Zaid Hamid To Pump Themselves Up To Fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2vae0OI5Y
Listen from 0:23. The SSG came who took part in the Peochar operation. And they said that they were inspired by his program to carry on the fight.
THIS IS SERIOUS
If he is from the ISI, then its not only to push the ISI viewpoint; as it is to motivate Pakistan Army soldiers to fight. Seymour Hersh called Zaid Hamid a preacher in his article and said that he is the voice listened to inside the army.
YS_1: Thanks for this. Very, very Interesting.
But mind you, on the Indian side some people are seeing visions of an ISI sponsored global jihad as well. I am sorry to say that this website is where I first heard of the Ghazwat-ul-Hind trope/idea. This Indian blogger reported it in a fairly breathless manner.
Hmmm, I don’t see anything Beck-like about Raman’s ‘rebuttal’ it is a typical rightwing criticism about US policy and Pakistan. There isn’t anything much by the way of a ‘conspiracy’ theory, as he certainly doesn’t say that ISI is sponsoring a ‘global jihad’ but that elements of Al Qaeda are being ’sheltered’ in the NWFP – an arguable point but one hardly just raised by conspiracy theorists or extremists.
There is of course no dearth of conspiracy theorists and theories in India either; the problem is that many people have been tired of hearing them since the days of Indira Gandhi the old excuse of the ‘foreign hand’ whether it was meant to be the CIA, KGB, ISI blah, blah,blah. I remember one of my uncles, who was an activist as well as a professor at Calcutta university recounting how he was arrested twice in the space of a month – the first time on allegations of being a PAkistani spy and the second time for being a Chinese spy!
The more ardent saffronist crown in the metropolitan regions would be susceptible to this kind of rhetoric, it receives less credence elsewhere. IMO anyway.
What Mr Zaid Hamid says is not something that he is saying by himself, but it is something which has been said before by Philosophers/Intellectuals/religion/ullimah. he just compiles them together and present it in such a way that a common man can understand. He also uses analogy,events and psychological mind setup etc, stated in Quran and Sunnah, to analyse geo politics and situations within Pakistan. Also,he gives solutions based on Quran and Sunnah and the wisdom of our elders. People who are aware of them can easily understand what Mr Zaid Hamid is saying, However, those who are not, might find him absurd.Though, one thing I have noticed is that, Hindus take more interest in what Mr Zaid Hamid has to say than the actual foreign policies of Pakistan, also our well wisher neighbor advises us how dangerous he is for Paksitan.
hmmm…interesting.
Hindus take more interest in what Mr Zaid Hamid has to say than the actual foreign policies of Pakistan, also our well wisher neighbor advises us how dangerous he is for Paksitan.
Doubt most across the border would know of him really.
You really wanna know who is Zahid Hamid then take a look at this website.
PS. Don’t know how credible the writer is because he seems to be bitten by anti Zardari bug too and his supporting points are quite irrational.
On another note, I would love hear your theories about democracy in Pakistan and why TV anchors hate democratic leaders. I know they’re corrupt and all but not as corrupt as our supreme Army, Nawaz and junta. Why noone blaming them for all the faults afterall they ruled Pakistan moren than any other entity. Is Jamat-e-Islami again aligning with Army to over throw popular party since they can’t be bought?
He is surely funded by the Army’s political wing aka Jamat e Islami just like all other TV anchors.
Try this website
http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2008/10/07/who-is-zaid-zaman-hamid
We Pakistanis blame everyone except the ones who are actually doing the killing. Last I check Afghanistan is the Heroine capital of the world and most of it eventually make it to the west. Wonder it has something to do with terrorism in Pak Afghan border area?
PS. I’m trying to post a link but somehow my comment isn’t showing up. So I have linked it with my profile, click it to learn about Zahid Hamid.
This guy is NO glenn beck. Your perception is backwards.
Beck works for the rich. This guys is trying to find justice.
Beck doesnt give a fuck for justice. He’s a propagandist. To control the minds of stupid, mid-age, white men in the USA. He is controlled and censored for effect.
OK, maybe he made some mistakes in analysis. Or is using the language he thinks people will hear.
This guy is a critical thinker. Despite his errors. Beck is a idiot who uses poetry to destroy critical thinking.
You might want to see the difference: http://www.youtube.com/user/mediamatters4america#p/u/5/5VSwvt778rY
“Anne Patterson’s Blackwater-gate” by Fasi Zaka
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=211432
“When people would obsess over the supposed clandestine take-over of Pakistan by the security firm formerly known as Blackwater (now Xe), I often wished that they be that animated over the problem of drinking water in our country.
I now feel that my dismissiveness was entirely wrong. It looked like a conspiracy theorist’s dream to me initially, a private army outside the remit of the law doing the bidding of the Americans in Pakistan.
Well, the definitive truth is now out; it is present in Pakistan. It may not be doing some of the more ridiculous assertions attributed to its operations in the country by an opportunistic Taliban, like carrying out suicide bombings, but Blackwater is here. It shouldn’t be. “
Well, the definitive truth is now out; it is present in Pakistan
Now that truth is out, let us also learn about the story of its founder Erik Prince
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/01/blackwater-201001
Tycoon, Contractor, Soldier, Spy
Huma Yusuf http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/12-blackwater+another+aspect–bi-04
“Rather than conflate condemnations of Blackwater operations with a more general anti-Americanism, Pakistanis should specifically reject the practice of extrajudicial killings.
Such focused opposition to mercenary activity will also put pressure on the Pakistani government to wage a clean war against terrorism, one that can win this ideological battle rather than generate more sympathy for the militant cause.
Public condemnations of Blackwater in this context will also give fillip to investigations into unconfirmed reports of extrajudicial killings (whether by army officers or local lashkars, it remains to be investigated) in Malakand in the wake of Operation Rah-i-Rast. ”
…
“In the absence of a robust legal framework that can deal justly and proportionately with terrorists, extrajudicial killings will remain an attractive option for stakeholders in the war against terrorism.
In that event, Blackwater operatives, or the employees of other private security firms, working with the US and/or Pakistani militaries and intelligence agencies, will have cause to launch secret programmes in Pakistan.
And as long as that happens, Taliban spokesmen will continue to find a scapegoat for their heinous attacks, winning public sympathy while pinning their crimes on other ‘non-state actors’. “
” Mercenaries such as those trained by Blackwater/Xe, DynCorp’s and Triple Canopy all mobilise with money instead of ideology. Like transnational terrorists produced by Al Qaeda, these mercenaries are bound by nothing other than the mission defined and the sum paid.
By not being tied formally to a military fighting force, they are unconstrained by the laws of war and by operating as a corporation they do not have to undergo the hassle of being accountable to or funded by elected bodies.
Furthermore, when governments subcontract their dirtiest tasks to them, they retain the option of denying ties or assuming responsibility — a win-win situation for carrying out politically unpopular actions without incurring the costs. ”
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/19-rich-mans-terrorist-hh-01
those who dont blv in Mr. Zaid Hamid’s talks, go to Qur’an & Hadith compare it with his sayings & i’m 99% sure u wud find him relevent. As our prophet PBAH said: if u hear something compare it with Qur’an & Sunnah/ Hadeeth if u find a clash REJECT it and if u dont’ ACCEPT IT :)
Im not into politics or upto date about what is happening around yet every other day on my FB account i keep hearing negative comments about zaid hamid. what is that all about?
i have done a lot of research on zaid hamid saying and his lectures.and it is very true.specially what he says about the jews and Zionists.i know he is very emotional but he is true.i think one should research on him before any comment.he is also very popular in India as well.
Is he popular among Indian Muslims or among Hindus and other religions as well? If there are Hindus who find him attractive then that would be further proof that if you hate America enough, you can love anyone who hates America.
btw, as far as “lot of research” is concerned, does your research support his contention that there will be a very violent war in India within the next few years (I think he also has some specific dates he has calculated using advanced esoteric knowledge) and at the end of this war the Pakistani flag will fly on Kolkata and Bangladesh and Pakistan will Unite to rule the new Muslim Empire in India? That probably sounds very attractive to some people, but I would point out that its only attractive if one believes that we and our friends and families will all be among the survivors (and remember he talks of millions to be killed)?
Just curious.
U all should plz read this research on zaid hamid’s past and present.. it is really shocking and convincing
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23672211/Zaid-Hamid-s-past-present-a-research-work
Well well well, I believe the owner is this BLOG must be residing OUT OF PAKISTAN. Not strange, plus must be a part of 5 % privilege class (so called elites) – in urdu “Parhay Likhay BUT unfortunately JAHIL). And what the hell how much you know about GLEN BECK (right wing conservative NUT BAG), amazing. Are you really a Muslim (I don’t mean MULLA) and if you are a PARSI or AGHA KHANI thats fine with me too. The BOTTOM LINE is if ZAID HAMID is trying to revive the youth of a country what the hell is your problem…this always happens when we solely base our knowledge on western media (which always give one sided view of the muslim world).
I think before confronting anyone else, THINK what you want to be the best for PAKISTAN, don’t you want the current corrupt politicians to dragged out of Pakistan political scene, don’t you want justice, don’t you want someone to head Pakistan in true leadership (i am not trying to say he should be Zaid Hamid), see the current depressed minds of our youth and general population need someone who can at very least provide some hope (you will be dreaming if you bet on your current political system and culture where few families had been ruling Pakistan for quite a while now). And I don’t know why don’t provide hope instead of debating OK provide solution to the current Problems we as a nation is facing??? People like you (owner of CM) like to instigate debates and points fingers.
At this point in time we need a revolution which will free our mind and bring about the hope to achieve the greater good for our homeland. And it will be through the youth (NO MULLAH’s NO Politicians) but youth of the country. And its started already. I am not cynical at all but sometimes you need to read between the lines, try to understand how and why historic events occurred in the way they occurred…(by the way I am NOT againts PARSI’s nor AGHA KHANI’s nor even our MEMON Bradiri not to mention out SECULAR minded elite). I just want you all to be patriotic to the country and spend time in spreading hope among all.
Zaid Hamid is just REMINDING us all how we can revive the nation (really in need) and how we can connect the current events unfolding geo-politically around us will affect us all in the long run. It might be a picture from a different angle you may argue the presentation but Not the intention. If someone says follow your Prophet sunnah (P.B.U.H) whats wrong with that, if someone says follow the high ideals set forth by our leaders you made Pakistan whats wrong with that, if someone says WAKEUP look around and analyze whats going on around outside our borders whats wrong with that. So think and respond to Zaid Hamid’s imperfections by providing an alternative (NOT TANQEED BARA-E-TANQEED)
This is not tanqeed barai tanqeed. The man is an ass and his views about the world are completely illogical and nonsensical. And his prescription for “revolution” leads to full scale war with India and the rest of the world. He has said on many occasions that he sees the Pakistani flag flying over Calcutta next year or 2012. Ditto for Delhi. Well, how do you think that flag will get there without a war? Is that the sensible and desirable future we are supposed to get after we get rid of “corrupt leadership”? He also claims that a massive international Jewish free-mason conspiracy is trying to destroy Pakistan and on various occasions he has labeled most politicians and the leaders of the lawyers movement as agents of this conspiracy. And what is his plan for getting rid of these agents and their satanic system? If you think that is the way forward to peace and progress, you need to think again.
btw, who IS going to be the leader of this new movement being created by Zaid Hamid and company? and what is the organization that will work for this leader?
“He has said on many occasions that he sees the Pakistani flag flying over Calcutta next year or 2012. Ditto for Delhi.”
This is essentially the reason of his popularity, he is selling dreams of gradeuour and greatness, of one’s superiority over others, of an inferior race destined to be ruled by a superior one. all this is so attractive to a depressed people that its selling like drugs, its addictive, makes one feel good and euphoric.
Nobody in India had even heard of him until his videos appreared everywhere after 26-11 claiming the ‘hindu faced’ ajmal kasab is a sikh called amar singh, all wrapped in the blatant but attractive lie that some dalits and christians in the indian intelligence community had told him so :) some indians have developed a morbid curiocity, a perverse sense of humor for this guy. popular in india? huh! we think he is a bigot of the first order and we hope he takes his followers where he’s taking them and where they deserve to be.
Any reasonable pakistani knows what he and his ilk in the media are doing and who is their master.
Zaid hamid is guiding people of Pakistan and he is speaking truth but those who hate pakistan are not able to accept it and for my fellow brother … If u are unsure about Zaid Hamid..Dont Follow him but Follow what is said in Quran and Sunnah If what he said is aginst that reject it else accept it..so that discussion that who is zaid hamid and what are his ideas are pointless..To me he is my Leader… a good Muslim…a Patriot..He may be better than many of us..and if u r living in pakistan and that too in a middle class than your heart knows what truth is…WE just need a leader and patriots like him..Pakistan Zindabad!!!!!!
Please Check this out:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24857701/Zaid-Hamid-s-Plans-in-2010
well recently i happened to attend one of his lectures in my university , all i concluded is that Zaid Hamid is doing a greatd job ,inspiring the nation and giving the youth of pakistan a plate form to manipulate their feelings and implying them ! he is not ( in no mean) emotionally black mailing any one of his followers nor is he waging war against any of the world nation . All of his facts and figures are baised upon ground realities all that he is doing is to bring forward the truth . if anyone has a problem with his ideas then better not listen ! it is easy to criticise than to do the actuall work !!!
I hope the lecture you attended was something other than this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn4XL1DGv-Y
The Zaid Hamid phenomenon is scarier from my perspective than anything the Taliban are doing.
It is almost like deifying Pakistan. Pakistani Muslim Zionism?
He accuses India of having an expansionist agenda of Akhand Bharat while preaching that Pakistan follow the same agenda (Of course, it’s always Ok when “we” do it).
Hindustan ka Matlab kya, bhar mein jaye hum ko kya. Ummm Yea! What does this alleged Iqbal-admirer have to say about Saare jahan se acha Hindustan hamara?
Speaking of Hindustan, “Hindustani” families refer to themselves as “Urdu-speaking.” Listening to this guy makes me think about whether Pakistani nationalism has something to do with the use of the term Urdu-speaking for people who migrated to Pakistan, not necessarily because of nationalism, but rather a response to it in not wanting to identify oneself as an “outsider.” Am I reading too much into it?
My folks use the two terms alternatively without a thought. Muhajir, though is one term that I have never used or heard my folks use to refer to our family. People who migrated to Karachi during partition, at least those that I have met, do identify themselves as Muhajirs.
Salman: in my experience (and somewhat tangentially), “Hindustani” is a term used by Punjabis for Muhajirs (i.e. every person I’ve ever heard use this term was a Punjabi; don’t of course mean to suggest that Punjabis in general use this term for Urdu-speakers); equally, I don’t think “Muhajir” was much (if at all) in use prior to the 1980s.
Come to think of it, that is consistent with my experience as well, but then most of my experience is of Punjab and Punjabis.
I meant more of a self identification term. As in what do people who migrated from the now India to Pakistan, call themselves (when they need to)? “When they need to” and where they are might dictate, to some extent, how they identify themselves.
Re: “As in what do people who migrated from the now India to Pakistan, call themselves (when they need to)?”
I think they do use “Muhajir” or “Urdu-speaking”, and my (no more than anecdotal) experience is that older folks use the latter term, but that younger ones use the former. And this isn’t necessarily correlated with any sympathy for the MQM or for “Muhajir politics”, but almost as a straight “ethnic” term, analogous to “Sindhi” or “Punjabi”. As you note, the “when they need to” is always an implicit issue (hence people who migrated from East Punjab to West Punjab aren’t ever called “Muhajirs”, they are indistinguishable from Punjabis-in-general — this only becomes an issue because the “native” and the “outsider” in the case of Urdu-speaking migrants mapped to different group identities (Sindhi and Urdu-speaking), and hence demography became an issue (if I’m not mistaken, there hasn’t been a census of Sindh since 1981)…
Qalandar, I agree with you about Zaid Hamid type thinking (not the individual person, who is a buffoon whose time will soon be up) being a bigger threat than the taliban. A good friend who is far more sagacious than me recently wrote: “I think that the jihadis are a self-limiting phenomenon for various reasons, and have reached their limit. However, that is not the case for two other less violent but just as regressive groups in the population: The religious fundamentalists and the India-haters. These groups, I fear, will grow unless they are opposed with pro-active positive strategies.”
My worst fear is that this way of thinking (Zaid Hamid as well as milder versions of anti-Indian Pakistani nationalism) MAY develop a momentum of its own, causing real decision makers (not just students and academics with zero influence) to get carried away, initially just going along because they are cynical and dont take the nonsense too seriously and regard it as useful propaganda, and end up in a real war with India. I am sure most readers of this august blog will find this a very silly fear and I too do not regard it as the LIKELY scenario, just a possible one…but its a very scary one. ..and its not our of the question because Pakistan is in the midst of a serious crisis (whether you wish to assign the blame on evil imperialists or anyone else is not the issue for this discussion, whatever the cause, the crisis is real) and populations in crisis are not always known to make the rational choice….
Reapected Sir zaid hamid
there is no dobut that you are proud of pakistan/pakistanis even for the muslim world.
I have great desire that Allah keep you under his special supervision every moment and give you long healthy life, we have to need your idealogy and your spirt.
of course you are giving caurage and dignity to pakistanis in the all world , by the grace of Allah, if pakistani leadership be come like you there is no power in this earth which distroy to pakistan. we still have hope to Allah ,he will give us leadership as we requred at the moment.
your best wisher.
from spain
Really Pakistan will become SUPER POWER one DAY
To the folks who think Zaid Hamid is a saviour for Pakistan and the Ummah, I would humbly suggest that you reflect again on your religion and that of your forefathers. Zaid Hamid is a manifestation of extreme bigotry and hatred. He is playing on people’s disillusion and frustrations that has built up over the last several decades. In no way does he represent Pakistanis or muslims in general. However he is beginning to fool enough people that he should be taken as seriously as Hizb e Tahrir. More extremism will just increase our troubles no end. Gaza, Venezuela, North Korea, Afghanistan and Iran are not good role models for Pakistan. Look at the state of their people. I know that there is a lot of frustration and things are bad but I don’t think Pakistanis are prepared to lose their senses. And also, we can’t but help hearing Zaid Hamid’s rants courtesy of AagTV etc so please don’t say people don’t know what he is talking about.
I was a great fan of Mr Zaid, I was hypnotized by his speeches. The way he speaks, about islam and Pakistan is so lovely to hear. Some times I used to get a sense of doubt on his history lectures because the way he narrates as if he was present at the scene. And when he was talking about Mumbai attacks….. saying it’s a conspiracy, the terrorist was an Indian and his name was like amar singh…. The way he said I thought it may be true. But when the truth is revealed, I said goodbye to him… It seems he is not a Pakistani, may be some other country is funding him to spoil the image of Pakistan and misguide the youth, so that they can wage a war with other countries so that Pakistan is ruined.
Does any one knows the origin and childhood of mr Zaid Hamid, he doesn’t seems to be a Pakistani, there is something fishy. He is not fighting for Pakistanis, infact he is simply making baseless fictional stories and misguiding the youth. Any educated Pakistani can understand, his love for Pakistan is just a drama, his mission is something else…. He is ruining Pakistan
“It is almost like deifying Pakistan. Pakistani Muslim Zionism?” Great point Salman.
I find all this “Allah blesses our country and will make it a superpower” thinking childish. Really? So when something bad happens, like in Haiti, they must have made God mad for some reason and so God destroyed their country? That’s where that logic leads to. Of course than you can argue what Allah even means, but anyway…
I mean, is being a superpower really more important than having health and education provided for all citizens? The US could learn that lesson too. Talking about martial power when people need more basic rights ensured is petty and shortsighted.
Does any one knows the origin and childhood of mr Zaid Hamid, he doesn’t seems to be a Pakistani
Good point. He could be an agent planted by Indian/Israeli/American agencies designed to make people exposing conspiracies against Pakistan look bad. Just as the Taliban are I/I/A agents designed to make Jihad look bad. ;-)
Zaid Sir I love you. You look very handsome and dynamic. You look like a Hollywood hero, you look so attractive, marvellous in your blue suite and red cap, Tom cruze is nothing infornt of you. We girls fantasize about you, I bought all of your posters and pasted in my bed room. I don’t know how to contact you.
Hey friends, does anyone got Zaid Sir’s number. “ Sir, I want to marry you”.
A good friend who is executive vice president at a major bank lives and dreams Zaid Hamid now. In some ways, I think this simply reflects the crisis of orthodox shariah based Islam, not specific to Pakistan. We tend to forget that there are many people who take the whole notion of Islamic state and its “mission” rather seriously…
Hey friends, does anyone got Zaid Sir’s number. “ Sir, I want to marry you”.
As for as I can tell this is first time someone has used Chapati Mystery as a forum to propose some one. Kudos to sepoy for this first one.
Not the first time :)
http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/imperial_watch/dear_mr_friedman.html#comment-4276
“Can we place him on a scale of Glenn Beck to Yusuf al-Qaradawi?”
I hope one can’t judge Pakistani public opinion by a ZaidHamid Index.
The Qaradawi Index: http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/21/the_qaradawi_index
“His finely-tuned finger to the wind remains one of the most useful barometers of Arab public opinion.”
Not the first time :)
I stand corrected. Thanks Salman.
Ohoo brothers and sisters this has to be Indian blog. I cant expect much good from this. why ? yaar we Pakistanis call it Roti and chapati is quite funny and indian.
The views of zaid hamid reflect the situation which are going to face. He is doing marvelous job by reminding our youth the past of muslim history. he is inciting the youth towards the tru spirit of islam and exposing the conspiracy hatched by zionists and hindues. We all should want islamic ecnomic system not the riba based system. i am proud of his efforts. some people are criticising him because they do not want that ismalic system prevail in our country.
Pakistanis should concentrate on how to solve their problems. How war with India will make Pakistan progressive and prosper? How Zaid is going to win war with India? What will happen to those Pakistani soldiers, without arms and legs after war, who will feed them and their families? How he is going to build pakistan after war with India? India has more chances to survive after nuclear war with Pakistan due to large territory. Why India should attack Pakistan, what India will gain from it?
Pakistanis should work harder to make their country economically strong and last thing Pakistan needs is a war. Living with stone age ideas will lead Pakistan into destruction. Take a lesson from Turkey and some Gulf countries, they know how to develop economy. Pakistan is living in fools paradise, thinking that they are the leader of the islamic world when arabs think Pakistanis as third class citizens. Arabs take Ghazwa-e-Hind as history when converted muslims (Pakistanis) think it as real.
I see another “The Secret Lives of Internet Cafes” in the making…now sepoy will have to write two books.
In my opinion, Zaid Hamid got some inspiration from SYED JAMALUDDIN, writer of “DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM” who advocates disintegration of Pakistan on the basis of his own arguments which deal with brain-washing of youth by the religious forces in Pakistan and the discriminatory attitude of Pakistan´s army towards Balochs, Pathans, Urdu speaking people and Sindhis. SYED JAMALUDDIN has proposed disintegration of Pakistan and making of 6 states in place of Pakistan. I feel that Zaid Hamid has tried to counter the arguments of SYED JAMALUDDIN by advocating Pakistan´s ideology under the banner of WAKE UP PAKISTAN. Zaid Hamid has now tried to confront Syed Jamaluddin because CNN had aired advertisement of Syed Jamaluddin´s book for two months in 2007. Most prominent Indian newspaper TIMES OF INDIA first reported about this CNN advertisement which also opened eyes of people like Zaid Hamid. I guess, Zaid Hamid has not yet responded to the arguments of Syed Jamaluddin and has relied on the rhetorics of nationalism without actually mentioning the reason about making of Bangladesh. Zaid Hamid calls making of Bangladesh as “breaking of Pakistan´s one hand”. He does not say more than this. The question is “Is Bangladesh not a Muslim country”? If yes, how can Zaid Hamid establish that Pakistan´s disintegration was a zionist conspiracy. There are so many other contradictions in Zaid Hamid´s arguments. In simple words, Zaid Hamid can impress a crowd of less educated students but cannot match a guy like SYED JAMALUDDIN who is known by the whole world as a political analyst. Zaid Hamid is out there to compete with Syed Jamaluddin and nothing else. Zaid Hamid is suffering from certain “complex”.
“Syed” Jamaluddin is a defector of Pakistan. According to Pakistan’s constitution any schemes of defection, disintegration is punishable by death. Pakistan is not alone in this regard. US routinely executes her own defectors. I simply don’t understand why someone has the need to shoot themselves in the foot. To talk of the disintegration of Pakistan instead of improving it. Why all these outclass “leaders” talk of separation right of the bat instead of giving unity of Pakistan a chance? Defectors like Mujib, Bugti and others talk of balkanizing Pakistan.
After years and years of hopelessness, Allah(swt) has gifted Pakistan another opportunity. This opportunity is brought in the form of Zaid Hamid. By following his vision of Pakistan (which was the originally intended vision), we can reclaim our destiny which was envisioned by our respectable founder, MA Jinnah.
Why do you guys choose to put a blindfold on your eyes? You reject Zaid and Ahmed Quraishi when they work hard in exposing those actions that these “actors” are doing their very best to hide. You reject them as conspiracy theorists. But you don’t, for a moment, sit back and think about where the world is heading.
Haven’t you heard about the involvement of CIA in toppling ELECTED and POPULAR governments of the world? Haven’t you heard how eventually CIA was able to murder Che Guivara (a popular latin American leader)? Haven’t you seen how USA has been skillfully removing all her possible opponents out of her way towards the total global control. First it was Communism, Vietnam, Indonesia, Cuba, Suez Canal, Panama Canal, and now China and Islam.
Pakistani System NEEDS revolution. You CAN NOT have a PROPERLY functioning democracy as well as you have a corrupt system and political base. Any amount of reform can be undone by these power hungary politicians when they use this system to gain power back.
Ahmed Quraishi writes impressively. He has the pleasantly astonishing creativity, flair and right connection for investigative reporting. He is doing a great job at that. Not only this, he has taken stance that should have been taken by the ruling parties.
Zaid Hamid’s appeal rests in his blunt expose, in his ability to revive the respect and patriotism which was long lost among Pakistanis. Finally, somebody honest loyal and debonair, has come to reculcate and revive Allah’s, Jinnah’s and Iqbal’s Pakistan
wah wah Nostaligic…………..our Youth has really gone so far ………i am amused to see the comments made. some are par excellence………….shows how strong thinkers we have.
Allah say dua karnee chahiyay keh WOH hum sub ko sirat e mustaqeem par chalnay kee taufeeq ataa farmaay. aur fitnoo say bachaay
Ameen
a man should talk balance, when he favors Army……its not right…….they have done so so bad things too and still doing……..anyway he has the charisma and thats what people dyeingf or.
Dear Sir Zaid hamid
We are grateful that you have really exposed be-Yahoo-di, Yahoo-di zionist and all zionists (US, Israel, Hindu, non-muslim, muslim, European) plans to destroy Pakistan. You have given us new identity that Pakistan was not created 60 years ago but existed even before Islam came to this world. How could all these paleet Zionists made us to believe that Pakistan was part of India, it was the way around. Pakistanis have nothing to do with India, Pakistanis were always muslims even before Islam. You have made us proud reminding us that Ghazni, Ghauri were Pakistanis and prophet was born in Lahore than he moved to Arabia later. You have done great job to Islam by exposing these bastard zionists agenda.
Youth in Pakistan and all over muslim world is looking for your leadership, we appreciate your efforts to bring Prophet’s birth place to Pakistan where it belongs. You are not afraid of all CIA, Massad and RAW agents who are trying to stop you to fulfil Ghazwa-a-Hind. If US, India, Israel and rest of the world don’t have courage to start war with Pakistan, then Pakistan should attack these countries to teach them lesson. We are sure that attacking India will solve Pakistan’s problems. We wish you to become Pak President, may be not, but Pak Prime Minister, as code to launch nuclear bomb is the hand of PM. Israelese and Indians already will be pissing in their pents as I am writing this article and agents of zionists (CIA, RAW and Massad) will be trying to kill me. You are brave, intelligent and fearless, muslims from all over the world waiting for you to lead them, please fulfil the will of Allah.
We all love you and proud of you, please go ahead and attack India, teach these paleet kafir a lesson
Yours humble servents
Doctors, nurses and patients
Psychiatric Hospital, Ward 3
Lahore, Pakistan
Someone on our list commented that Zaid Hamid and his ilk have already won the battle for Pakistani hearts and minds and “liberals” have no future in Pakistan because “Islam is already victorious”. I wrote a quick reply:
I think we have to clarify our terms here:
1. I dont care too much about what title people want to give to their ideology, its the actual mechanics and results that count. If people in Pakistan manage to create an Islam that has all the instruments of a modern state, most of the forms and protections of secular democracy, general acceptance of our entire heritage (not just its arab or imaginary part) and acceptance of modern norms of human rights and coexistence between various religions, then this Islam would qualify as reasonably liberal in my book. It will be the “traditional” Muslims and the radical salafist fascists who will be screaming blue murder and complaining about this “godless system”, not me.
2, I think there is a large segment of modestly educated people in Pakistan who read enough “pakistan studies” nonsense in school to become susceptible to Zaid Hamid. But I am not totally convinced that they mean what they say. Why do I say that? Because in practice these people are reasonably sane. They send their kids to modern schools, apply for scholarships at the British Council, desperately hunt for green cards, buy and sell stocks better than I do, and make plans for moving ahead in the modern world…in short, their actual lives are pretty much indistinguishable from the actual lives of middle class people in Amritsar and Jullunder (some of whom no doubt have their own fantasies and delusions). This Zaid Hamid stuff is mostly hot air. An occasional nutcase takes it too seriously and sets fire to his underwear in the process, but those are exceptions. My point is, the middle class will do what middle classes do…not what their fantasy discussions in drawing rooms seem to imply.
3. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The army in Pakistan is more heavily indoctrinated than most groups in this matter. Yet when push comes to shove, the army does what Uncle Sam really really wants them to do. I admit that when it comes to India, some of them are still not clear about which way the international wind is blowing, but its a matter of time. Like it or not, they will do what their underpriced residential plots and credit cards tell them to do, which is to adjust to being part of the capitalist modern world. Which means they can rant on about India but they will have to rein in the jihadis…that whole paradigm is just not compatible with “normal” existence in the modern world. Once they get on board (and who knows, they may already be on board and will soon get Zaid Hamid to change his tune) we will still have ALL the problems of being a “developing” country, with deep divisions, exploitation, difficult neighbors, a kleptocratic upper class, etc etc, and we will still play all the games states play with each other in the international system, but we wont arm and train half a million jihadis and we wont suddenly go nuts and start a war with India or anyone else….that is still my prediction.
4. I will continue to propagate in favor of secular democratic values and I think I the Islamists will move more towards me than I will have to move towards them…not because i am so strong but because that is the way history is moving….THEN we will still have the problem of how to reform the modern capitalist system and what comes next in human history, but this argument about Islamism is going to pass out of fashion…not tomorrow, but one day not too far in the future, and we will wonder why we got so excited about it…
5. I could be wrong, but the alternative is a very big war with very heavy casualties.. so i really hope I am not wrong.
Let me make this clear to those individuals who are twisted enough to call themselves “Liberal”.
YOU ARE NOT A MAJORITY in Pakistan. You only represent a minority of population. So, why should your goals and desires be SHOVED down the throats of Majority.
I dislike when liberals (superficial muslims) sing accolade of the western system and not see the END RESULT. This secular modern society has given you 2 World wars and plenty of regional conflicts, like Vietnam war, Arab/Israel War, Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Russian invasion of Afghanistan. This is all in addition to all the poverty that the world is thrown in. The evils of corporations is not unknown. The amount of toxic waste that these greedy corporations throw into our seas is well known.
Second of all why are we so SLAVE to western culture that we ARE unable to think we can get a better society?
This world and the whole universe around it is created by Allah(swt). When HE says something is bad, it IS bad.
HE chose Islam for us and that WILL be the system we will follow in Pakistan whether you LIKE it or NOT.
Those who think Islam is just a fad need to wake up to this reality. Those who are TRIVIALISING Islam need to grow out of their bias and ignorance. This is the same Islam under whose patronage we had great civilazations like Basra, Al-Andulucia etc where science and learning were the core values of the society. Most of the modern inventions have their PRECURSOR in the Arab sciences. ISLAM IS NOT AGAINST PROGRESS. Islam IS against false values, customs, inventions etc that ONLY serve to hurt human beings. The ILL effects of TV are known widely in the West. They write about it extensively. The western banking system serves ONLY the few rich families who LITERALLY control the world. This system is based on false principles i.e. interest based economy. This interest is the MOST exploitative system created by the friends of Satan. Why should I pay you $5000 when I ONLY borrowed $2000 in times of need? Should n’t your conscience allow you to help me in my times of need instead of taking that as a business opportunity? Those who are unable to see exploitation in this are Losers.
There is ENOUGH wealth, water and natural resources that can be used by a country and exported for FREE to the world. Every season million dollar worth of excess vegetation is thrown away instead of exporting to Africa. There is a lot of wastage of food and money and natural resources.
Democracy is an EVIL system. Here people are counted not evaluated resulting in the low quality of governership. All you have to do is campaign for most signatures and promulgate IMPERFECT laws that are created by IMPERFECT minds most of the time biased. Today we all know the ill effects of smoking but the HUGE tobacco industry uses her clout to EFFECTIVELY stop manufacture of cigarettes.
I swear to God what ever ‘comforts’ invented in this western system have turned out to be REALLY poisonous to the society at large. In Islam, the scientist will not have an ego-trip with God. They would rather, build and invent things for the betterment of humanity (you can google about how there are environmentally free scientific solutions to, for example, treat surgar with virtually no side effects but FDA DOES not approve it in USA. Why? Because Pharmaceutical Industry won’t make money if everyone is healthy)
I REJECT the western system of lies, deceipts, cruelty, selfishness, corporatization, Machiavelian politics and indulgence in basic animalistic instinct instead of inducing humans to stimulate their higher faculties.
I VOTE and Support Islamic system of Fairness, Justice, Peace, Altruism, Nature-friendliness, Equality, Egalitarianess.
I want you all to think about this. Nobody, has paid attention to this fact. Even according to the rules of democracy, Majority wins. And Pakistan’s majority does not rest in her liberal or western-educated rich population which is wrongly termed as “elite” (elite because they agree with the West and are eager to sell their souls into slavery).
Majority of Pakistan in undeveloped. Only 5 major cities of Pakistan which represent a small percentage (may be 5-10%) of total real estate of Pakistan. On top of that these “liberals” or “elites” are even WAY smaller in population in these cities. In Karachi,e.g, they seem to be living in Defence, Clifton (mostly) and some small pockets throughout the city. Similarly they are found in posh localities of Islamabad or Lahore etc. The rest of the population is VERY indigenous and still hold on to old subcontinental culture where Islam is at the core. If you count the Waderas, Nawabs or Sardars, they also constitute ONLY a minority.
So, I don’t understand why the aspirations of the minorities should rule the roost. I wish Pakistani majority can wake up to this fact and ASSERT themselves.
The fact that a Lal-topi exists, is heard, discussed and even liked is sufficient to prove that a peaceful world order is a mirage.
Asher, The majority of Pakistanis has had several chances to reveal what they prefer and they have consistently preferred PPP, PML, MQM, ANP etc to the jamat islami fascists and other salafist goons. The majority does not want your imaginary “perfect” system, get used to it.
Just repeating things a few hundred times does not make them true. “muslim civilization” of Baghdad and Andalusia was an advanced civilization of its time (though in my opinion, still underdeveloped compared to the earlier Roman empire). There was nothing magical about it. Many advances in science and technology were made, building on earlier knowledge accumulated by pre-muslim cultures. And many of these were then built upon in Europe and taken further and further. The scientific advancements of the Arabs owed a lot to earlier Greco-Roman and Indian advances, but very little to peninsular Arab ideas (the specific forms of Islamic theology and ideology developed in that time seem to have a very tangential connection to specific scientific and technical advances….a multinational empire provided many talented people with the chance to acquire old knowledge and create new knowledge..thats good, but hardly in the realm of fairy tales where you seem to be putting it).
Anyway, other than the few thousand nuts trained by our glorious army and now being hunted by that same army, no one takes these fairy tales seriously enough to make much of an impact in this world. Its entertainment and propaganda and clever people use it in their politics just like clever people in India use “hindutva” and clever people in America like to preach “truth, justice and the American way”. Enjoy it and be happy.
In other news, ANP stalwart Ajmal Khattak is no more… RIP…
Pakistan’s problem started the day she was created. The founding fathers never had any ideas what Pakistan was for, except demanding separate state on the basis of religion. Its founding fathers saw India as a source of all problems facing muslims and thought that all problems will be solved just having a separate state, never saw all responsibilities and that will come with it. This thinking is still reflected in every Pakistanis psyche as Pakistanis blame everybody for all their problems.
Pakistanis are in denial, about their cultural history and have inferiority complex. Pakistanis have identity crisis as they are muslims but culturally nothing common with Arabs (foreign invaders who converted them in to Islam ) and don’t think that Pakistanis have anyhting do with them. It is funny how Pakistanis are proud of these invaders who killed their forefathers and force them into Islam, boast that Pakistanis ruled India for 1000 years, even if that is not enough, even claim to rule Spain and Europe. I have Arab friends who laugh listening to this. Even funnier when Pakistanis talk about Arabic scientists as they were Pakistanis.
Why Pakistan as a country, has not decided yet what, how and why, it was created.? Why there is still debate after 60 years for its existance and creation? The reason for this question is that Pakistanis were promised an unrealistic haven on false pretences. Pakistanis are still living in the past and waiting a miracle to happen, to become Pakistan a paradise without hard work or taking responsibilities. Pakistanis have developed tendencies to blame another countires (India, USA etc) for their laziness or inaction. Allah, Sharia or reciting verses from Koran will not solve Pakistan’s problem, Pakistanis should work hard to make their lives better.