Comments on: The General Speaks

By: lapata

lapata — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:57:44 +0000

Panu, to clarify, the English words you heard in the General’s speech don’t exactly qualify as loanwords, per se. When you hear him saying ‘Five-year plan’ in the middle of a stream of Urdu, he’s just using whatever English words he wants to. There are many words from English that are incorporated phonetically and grammatically into Urdu, such as film, train, photo, etc. When he used those words, you may not have even noticed. What you were noticing is a very common form of code-switching in South Asian languages where one strings together English nouns (mostly, but also adverbs and such) using Urdu (or any other language) grammar; the reverse is just as common, in which English grammar is the foundation, and predominantly Urdu nouns are sprinkled throughout. The point being that particularly in Hindi and Urdu, new words from English are infinitely mixable. The best is to watch interviews with Bollywood stars, who constantly switch between Hindi/Urdu and English from sentence to sentence and even phrase to phrase. It should also be noted that phrases like ‘deployment of nuclear weapons,’ or ‘UN-monitored plebiscite,’ as well as the vocabularies of bureaucracy or high levels of specialization, such as psychology or engineering, are almost always English, and when government-designated translators in India make up substitutions using Sanskrit, the results tend to elicit peals of laughter.

By: Desi Italiana

Desi Italiana — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:48:15 +0000

Panu:

“So Urdu is not even the majority language?”

Nope. 8% speak it as a mother tongue (according to the US Library of Congress).

By: Panu

Panu — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:08:11 +0000

“Urdu is nothing but mixed patois - born of Persian, Arabic and Sanskrit and nurtured in garrison towns. English loan words came long before Musharraf’s slurred speech.”

That much is well-known, but I thought that loan words would be somehow adapted to the language, in terms of phonetics and grammatical endings.

“The majority of Musharraf’s audience, for example, would not be completely fluent in Urdu - speaking instead Sindhi, Baluchi, Punjabi, Serayki or Pushtu”

So Urdu is not even the majority language?

By: Desi Italiana

Desi Italiana — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:40:12 +0000

“Urdu is nothing but mixed patois - born of Persian, Arabic and Sanskrit and nurtured in garrison towns.”

Hindi, Gujarati, Punjabi, etc are “mixed patois” as well. The Gujarati dialect that my family speaks, for example, has more Farsi and Arabic words than standard Gujarati.

By: sepoy

sepoy — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:42:57 +0000

“that sort of mixed patois is all there is to Urdu”
Urdu is nothing but mixed patois - born of Persian, Arabic and Sanskrit and nurtured in garrison towns. English loan words came long before Musharraf’s slurred speech.

As for the ordinary Pakistanis, you would be surprised what they can do with language. The majority of Musharraf’s audience, for example, would not be completely fluent in Urdu - speaking instead Sindhi, Baluchi, Punjabi, Serayki or Pushtu - and would rely on interlocutors to figure out the nuances - if they cared enough. My guess is, however, that the majority of Musharraf’s audience would have found better things to do with their time than watch the General speak.

By: Panu

Panu — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:35:56 +0000

Well, it did clarify a few things. Are ordinary Pakistanis versed enough in English to understand that kind of language?

To my eternal shame, I am fluent neither in Urdu, nor in Hindi, nor in any other language of the Indian subcontinent, but anyway, I find it positively depressing if that sort of mixed patois is all there is to Urdu.

By: sepoy

sepoy — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:02:06 +0000

Panu, perhaps Muhammad Hanif can shed some light on Musharraf’s Urdu.

By: Panu

Panu — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:25:12 +0000

I hope I’ll be excused to ask a question as a trained linguist: is Urdu normally *so* riddled with English loanwords?

By: dr anonymous

dr anonymous — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:09:21 +0000

But, in my view, with great sorrow, I must say that certain powers are interfering in this democratic plan, putting hindrances and trying to stop it. Just as all the time had already passed and only a few months remained, this third stage is being sabotaged. In my opinion, this is being done deliberately for personal and political gain, and for the detriment of Pakistan.

Who does he mean here? Islamists? Saudi Arabia? The U.S.? Bhutto? Sharif? Inquiring minds want to know.

By: Retributions » Good Bye Musharraf?

Retributions » Good Bye Musharraf? — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:29:37 +0000

[...] speech defending the proclaiming the imposition of emergency supplies enough evidence of his irritation with the higher judiciary. Not only he accuses judicial activism of frightening the agents of the state, he also accuses the [...]

By: Polling Pakistanis : Global Dashboard

Polling Pakistanis : Global Dashboard — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:25:34 +0000

[...] justifying suspending the constitution, Musharraf went out of his way to attack the media (“contributed to this downslide, this negative thinking, this negative projection”) [...]

By: maujkar

maujkar — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:20:36 +0000

OK… so .. is this all going to effect the India vs Pakistan ODI series ??

By: Pragmatic Euphony » Blog Archive » Pakistan - Emergency & Economy

Pragmatic Euphony » Blog Archive » Pakistan - Emergency & Economy — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:27:43 +0000

[...] While declaring the emergency on 3 November, the Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf lamented - I am observing that Capital and Business that was flowing into the country is now stopped - they are now questioning whether to invest here or not Pakistan will remain stable. Our economy, the livelihood of our nation which improved over the last 7 years - in economy, in livelihood, in infrastructure, roads, ports, airports, railways, telecommunication, mobile telephone, landlines, rural telephone, information technology, building and construction, the entrepreneurs across the land, the rapid development across Pakistan, the thousands of industries launched, water irrigation, dams, canals, canals with brick linings, water courses, and then the social sector, education, health on the primary and secondary level, and education at every level - on all these Pakistan was moving forward, all this. I am very saddened, God Forbid, that 7 years of hard work may be washed away. [CM] [...]

By: The Indian Economy Blog » Pakistan - Emergency & Economy

The Indian Economy Blog » Pakistan - Emergency & Economy — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:46:56 +0000

By: Brains turning to Mush « Kafr al-Hanadwa

Brains turning to Mush « Kafr al-Hanadwa — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:24:34 +0000

[...] updates: I didn’t have the stomach to watch Musharraf’s speech myself, but here is a transcript/translation of the Urdu and English speeches. Do observe the rhetorical strategies [...]