I have to admit that even as a “religious” person I am not particularly “evangelical” (it’s simply not in my nature). People who try and shove their religiosity down my throat are met with a sharp rebuff, though I wouldn’t deride someone for trying to “convert” me to their point of view. So what if Youhana found the arguments of Anwar (or whoever) persuasive (no matter how much one may scoff at the actual argument)? Afterall, isn’t it a liberal idea to use persuasion through argumentation rather than violence? Was Youhana threatened with violence unless he converted? I don’t know as I am not in Pakistan right now, so maybe someone could clear that up for me. In fact, people ought to be happy that these “fundies” actually spoke to Youhana in the first place, rather than dismiss him as a disbeliever already ‘destined for hell’.

And I don’t think the Tablighis are much like the American Christian Right today as they’re too apolitical for that. The mullahs will make political hay out of this just as much as secularists or liberals make hay out of other events which favour their viewpoint (I’m not favouring one over the other, merely questioning this “auto-liberal” response).

Wouldn’t this situation be even worse for someone who spends most of the year touring with a team full of devout Muslims?

http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/story/219991.html

To say they are “apolitical” is simply not true. They too, like the Christian conservatives in the US, are extremely ‘right’ leaning. Every large organization in Pakistan (whether they claim to be apolitical or not) has an influence over how its members vote. This is the way it works bro.

Secondly, in order to support my claim of Tablighi’s right wing bias, will you ever see people like Saeed Anwar campaigning for women’s rights in Pakistan? LOL. Will you ever see their members talking about peace with India? Will you ever see the Tablighi praise Musharaff’s government or the US?

Further, it IS DOCUMENTED that Tablighi members have links to Jamaat E Islami, and Sipah E Sabah, two notorious religious right wing outfits in Pakistan. Maulana Fazlur Rehman, leader of the opposition, and a member of Jamaat E Islami, is also known to attend Tablighi meetings.

Thabet, it doesn’t matter if you don’t believe in egalatarian principles. It’s ok if acceptance of others is not in your nature. It’s ok if you think everyone else’s religious views are wrong except yours – but please don’t try to imply that Tablighi has no political agenda, or doesn’t support the fanatic conservative platform. Wake up!!!

Oh, and you’ve already failed Godwin’s Law and so appear to have lost the argument anyway. Be a good boy and run along to Google and find out why.

As for Tablighi-Jamaa’t…a lot of people I know are in it, associated with it. Are they decent people? yes. Are they political? yes. Are they coercive? yes.

As for your reference to Godwin’s Law, and your assertion that I’ve lost the argument by comparing the Tablighi’s Wahabbist philosophy to that of the Nazis, i’d like to point your attention to “Quirk’s Exception” to Godwin’s Law, which states that an “intentional invocation of this so-called ‘Nazi Clause’ is ineffectual.”

Furthermore, “my dear chap”, it appears you have misunderstood the very essence of Godwin’s Law, so I refer you to the following Godwin’s Law FAQ:

http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/godwin.html

The FAQ’s introduction states, “One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is ‘if you mention Hitler or Nazis in a post, you’ve automatically ended whatever discussion you were taking part in’. Known as Godwin’s Law, this rule of Usenet has a long and sordid history on the network – and is absolutely wrong.”

sepoy: Fine, you have an insiders knowledge I do not posses and so I submit to your better judgement on that matter. Let me correct/clarify myself then: in *my experiences* — of having been taught Islamic practices by members of the Tablighi Jamat (not all who were Pakistani, mind) — “politics” has been largely eschewed and shunned. In fact mentioning the word would have you chastised for “being too concerned with worldly affairs” and not too concerned with “purifying” oneself of “bad traits” like “forgetting God”. Are they political because all people operate in a political world? Yes, of course. Are they a political party with ostensible political goals, like say Hizb al-Tahrir? No, or it is hard to make such a case. Are they coercive like any true believers, religious or secular? Yes, no doubt. That’s a believers “job”, I suppose. Coercion doesn’t need violence.

As for decency, being liberal etc. again I have not said they are — or even aren’t — “decent” or “liberal” or whatever, nor that these are not worthy criticisms. I was pointing to something else altogether.

It’s focus is prepare the individual for Akhirah
Yes it opposes some practices related to Dargahs etc… but is not full of hate.Have you even read the traditional Tablighi literature ? Nowhere does it preach hatred .As fellow muslims we should be happy that Yusuf Youhana has gained Hidayat and has reverted to Islam.Good for him …

http://www.ssrc.org/sept11/essays/metcalf_text_only.htm